Onya Yabby... yes, I smiled too with your analogies.

But I know you better than you think :)

No further comment on that.

GRIM.. fallen Christian ? we are all fallen mate.. the whole human race. But why stay there ? lets 'get up' again and restore that broken fallen relationship !

What I find, is that the more there is some little 'moral closet or special room' in our lives, the more we want to classify divine truth as 'legend/myth/stories/fantasyland' Its the only way we can avoid cognitive dissonance. (guilt) We have to transform our beliefs to be in harmony with our actions or desires. When scripture is subjected to the closest scrutiny, I seriously don't find much to be troubled about.

There is a Utopia to be had, even in this rather rapidly downward spiralling world. It is when our hearts are directed to our Creator through a relationship with Him in Christ, when He fills our minds, guides our thoughts, enables our wills, and renews our attitudes.

Sometimes I think we view life like the Dairy Farmer who has a farm on marginal land, but who did not factor in 'drought' to his projections, then when the crunch comes, begs the government for an exceptional circumstances sustaining handout.

Lets not be sucked in by the 'screen saver' attractions of 'the world' and then be obliterated by an eternal drought of spiritual darkness, for which there is no fix.

johnj, the quote came from television, almost sure it was Anzac day and I think the person who said it is a Dr Ameer , some name like that. If he was joking and I have never heard of a muslim joking, he picked a very bad day to make a crack like that.

Mickijo, in a pluralist society everyone is entitled to their own views, no matter how stupid. Therefore Dr Ameer (or whoever) should be entitled to spout whatever rubbish he likes. How far should we be allowed to take this freedom? To insult other people's views, particularly on the basis of their ethnicity, religion etc etc? I would hate to see someone arrested for talking or writing, but if they incite crime is it appropriate to send them to gaol?

If someone tells others to kill infidels/communists/rightists/greenies/vegetarians/gun owners (or whoever) then they have abused freedom of speech and should be appropriately punished. But someone who sees Australian values as "throw another steak on the barbie"? The only punishment they need is to be laughed at.

Incidentally on ANZAC Day I was at Prospect Reservoir picnic ground, which was really crowded. I went in search of a barbie to cook some steak and snags. All the barbies were full, but a nice arabic gentleman let me use the Webber he had brought with him and lent me some tongs. Australian values indeed!

Speaking about Anzac Day and Australian values... there was a good debate on SBS' Insight the other day and a muslim gentleman expressed his dualistic views about the Anzac's.

As an Australian born he wanted to commemorate and be sad for the dead soldiers - but as a muslim it was a day of victory he said. Then he ranted about the significance of his surname and his direct link to the Ottoman Empire...

Are we expecting the impossible from our muslim fellow citizens? For most to integrate anywhere is to reject their innermost antagonism of modern society (and peace).