I too thank Rex for his well reasoned post - something that is in short supply on OLO.

I checked out the website - very good. I really fear that Australia is following the US in its repressive attitudes not only towards sex but towards anyone who doesn't quite 'fit' eg gays, non christians and so on.

On another thread I went to Wikipedia for a look at American christian 'values' and I find it relevant here. Australia following USA's 'lead' will result in USA level unplanned pregnancies and STD's.

"In the 21st Century, the phrase "Christian values" or family values was used by many conservative groups to describe the following values,

* censorship of sexual content, especially in movies and on television
* the desirability of laws against induced abortion
* the desirability of laws against birth control
* sexual abstinence outside of marriage
* the desirability of laws against same-sex marriage
* the desirability of reinstituting faculty-led prayer in taxpayer-funded schools"

See also this report on teenage pregnancy in US and the manipulation by anti-choice clinics masquerading as planned parenthood clinics - Tony Abbott has given the green light for this to occur in Australia.

"Misleading 'crisis pregnancy centers' are appearing across America, aiming to limit or even prevent women from exploring all of their legal health care options."

http://www.alternet.org/rights/35545/

Sex education is all about our health and well being as a nation, yet it is still relegated behind closed doors in the 21st century - to our detriment and shame.

Some thoughts.

* censorship of sexual content, especially in movies and on television

I don't have a problem with this. Due to the extremely exploitable nature of sexual content, and the continual battering rams against whatever happens to be the current 'level of acceptability' by commerical rather than artistic interests, who seek financial gain by 'pushing the boundaries' I suggest we limit media exposure of sexual content to 'alluding to' (yes..this is very 40s and 50s ish :)
rather than showing. We don't have hot passionate sex in front of our neighbours, why should we see 'them' by proxy on our Tv screens ?

* the desirability of laws against induced abortion

I agree. Life is sacred.

* the desirability of laws against birth control

Don't agree, cannot see the point of this one. No biblical foundation that I can see.

* sexual abstinence outside of marriage.

Agree. Most people who have been the victim of adultery would also I feel.

* the desirability of laws against same-sex marriage.

Agree. We should send a message about boundaries through the law.

* the desirability of reinstituting faculty-led prayer in taxpayer-funded schools"

Nice if everyone is Christian, sadly, they are not. Might be some value in a symbolic way, but don't expect teenagers to put their hearts in it while their hormones are raging.

A community which begins the day with voluntary corporate prayer is a joy to be a part of.

Scout, things are 'well reasoned' if they agree with u ? :)

BD

"Scout, things are 'well reasoned' if they agree with u ? :) "

NO.

I disagree with R0bert over the level of domestic violence committed by women.

I had a very interesting debate with 'Ian' on the Republic issue even though we held opposing POV's.

Your problem, BD, is that you want to convert all non-christians to your version of christianity. Fortunately not all christians are as narrow minded as you and they also believe in live and let live. One of the interesting aspects of posting here, has been the consolidation of my agnostic beliefs. The level of irrationality displayed by the far right religious posters has confirmed, just how out of touch with reality a belief in dogma creates.

Furthermore, if you found Rex's post not "well reasoned" then could you point out your 'reasons', please?

Rex stated: "Planned Parenthood officials believe that's because Europeans talk to their teen-agers about sex differently from Americans, viewing it as a public health issue rather than a moral, religious or political matter."

Do you believe that sex is not a public health issue, BD?

I find the christian focus on sex, limiting censorious and inequitable. For this reason sex education in the USA is not well rounded and inclusive, leading to misinformation and discrimination against people who don't fit your narrow definition of acceptability.

Lets agree to disagree BD.

I notice you didn't bother with my link regarding misleading pregnant teenagers by religious anti-choice agencies.

I suppose you believe if these pregnant girls just believed in 'jesus' their unwanted pregnancy would just disappear.

Like Rex and R0bert I prefer to deal with reality. I guess reality for you is a left wing concept.

My 2 cents.

* censorship of sexual content, especially in movies and on television

Definitely agree – the rating standards are a joke at the moment, especially during prime time (children viewing) slots. Advertising, music, some sports, radio, should also be regulated.

* the desirability of laws against induced abortion

Absolutely – except under very strict supervision and in extreme cases only. There is nothing “casual” about killing another human life.

* the desirability of laws against birth control

Agree with BD – this is mostly a Catholic initiative. Birth control is OK for a short time only - as long as it is for the right motives and not for selfish reasons. (i.e. career, mortgage, travel,…)

* sexual abstinence outside of marriage

God’s law – not negotiable

* the desirability of laws against same-sex marriage

As previous

* the desirability of reinstituting faculty-led prayer in taxpayer-funded schools"

Why not – after all it is the Christians who first instituted public schools.

What seems archaic to some is pure common sense to other.

I don’t believe we are following the US in this; they are still very much a Christian nation at large; however the biblical logic is the same (for some).

Scout, I agree with you entirely, the irrationality and hypocrisy of monotheists knows no bounds.

“*censorship of sexual content, especially in movies and on television

“I don't have a problem with this.”

“I suggest we limit media exposure of sexual content to 'alluding to' (es..this is very 40s and 50s ish :) rather than showing.”

Both ways again BD, you must make up your mind and realise that the world is full of intelligent people. Unlike in the past, when you could fool people with your delusions, now people are grownup. Not infantile and brainwashed, nor hell bent on controlling the world with the lies and deceit your beliefs preach.

Rex has placed before you excellent evidence of the reality of your flawed and a suppressive doctrine.

Coach, your right, the USA is a christian nation, they have the highest crime rates, the highest execution rates, the highest discrimination rates, they highest rates of poor in western countries, the highest murder rates, the highest rates of sexual corruption and abuse. The highest rates of religious leaders calling for war, the highest rates of religious leaders charged with corruption and sexual infidelities. They also have the lowest rates of health and welfare support and the lowest wage rates in western countries.
A perfect example of a truly christian nation that exemplifies the true nature of god.

coach, are you just giving your general support to those "christian values" or are you supporting them being part of the law and forced on non-believers?

You and I seem to have spent a fair bit of time on this topic in the past and I thought that you had differentiated between a belief in Gods standards and a desire to enforce them on others - the free will thing. If God has truly given humans free will then christains should not attempt to revoke it. Your comments read as support for enforcement in law (but I might be misreading them) of those christain values.

As per your comments in a previous post -

"So only Jesus (God) will judge people at the end.
Should “I” let people to the final judgement or do “I” interfere in their affairs?
Should I warn people of an incoming tsunami?
1. The rational is “love” and knowledge of the consequences.
2. I am not allowed to judge. Only God judges his creation.
3. My function as a Christian is to tell people the good news of their salvation in Christ Jesus.
4. Only if the person is a close friend – I would probably counsel him/her within the confides of our friendship; the aim is to redirect them to God’s way. There are many scriptural models for that.
5. I would definitely pray for them and for myself.
Free will allows people to make wrong choices. "

BD, I'll second scout's comments regarding disagreement. We understand the difference between giving different weight to different evidence and ignoring all the evidence in favour of the inspired word of an invisible friend.

You continue to refer to this mythical world where conversion transforms people into much better people - believing your own propaganda (sad). The real world is not like that, too often pastors cheat on their wives, youth ministers don't keep their hands off the youth they claim to be helping, christain businessmen rip customers off, churches misuse public money to help their own bottom line etc.

R0bert