Hey R0bert

Just a point. BD questioned my interpretation of 'reasonableness' and not yours, even though we both applauded Rex's post.

I think this means that BD believes that some (men) are more 'reasonable' than others (women).

;-)

On topic, I quoted the Wiki 'christian values' to see what I would stir up. What is truly appalling is that neither "christian poster" could make the link between repressive sexual attitudes and the suppression of sex education and all the sad consequences that ignorance of sex results in.

Instead they went off on a rant in support of these very American christian "values". Perhaps they should consider seeking refuge from us heathens in the good ole USA.

Can't see the world for the bible.............can't see the forest for the trees.

Scout, it might be that I did not go far enough in my post and say why I was thankfull for the particular post or you may be correct and some persons are regarded as genetically more "reasonable" than others. I'm not so sure that BD is running a fan club for me so tend to assume the first.

It is quite telling that the core point of the post and attached link - that repressive sexual attitudes lead to more unwanted pregnancies etc than a matter of fact approach has not been seriously contested (alternative statistics etc) by BD or coach.

I'm fine if they want to keep those values for themselves, I share some of them in my own life - I don't have a particular interest in becoming homosexual, I don't cheat on partners (because of the trust issue rather than the "who put what where" thing). My concern is about attempts to impose those "christian values" on others who don't follow their faith or have them enshrined in law. Hence my attempt to get coach to clarify if his post is a personal support for those values or a desire to have them imposed on others (thus reducing the free will the christain god has supposedly given those others).

Keep up the good work my friend.

R0ber

Thanks for the comments everyone. I can't of course claim any special recognition for the points raised. I'm not the researcher, just the messenger.

What we have is evidence of what works in a number of European countries to help reduce unwanted pregnancies and abortions in young people. And in America and perhaps also in Australia what does not work.

What appears to work:
Straightforward advice about sexual matters, without unneccesary religious interpretations.
Common sense advice about avoiding inappropriate sexual activity, unwanted pregnancies and STDs, without resorting to religious based ideas on morality.
Encouraging people to be accepting of nudity, rather than brainwashing them into being ashamed and embarrassed at their own body and the bodies of others.
Accepting that a significantly large minority of people are born with a physical/psychological make-up which is not 100% heterosexual. And being prepared to accept that such people have just as much right to sexual and/or loving relationships as heterosexual people.

What demonstrably doesn't work:
Censoring the human body by banning nudity on TV and films, in the print media and from almost all beaches.
Pretending that being gay is a personal choice and inherently sinful.
Allowing misguided religious extremists to set the standards with which all must legally comply.
Allowing uninformed, misinformed and unrealistic people to set school curricula on sexual education. And allowing even basic sex education to be optional.

I would suggest that, in at least some respects, Australia is currently neglecting various aspects of medical science and instead is promoting superstition.

R0bert,

My understanding of how laws are (I hope) formed and/or changed is by extensive deliberation. I get the feeling that some of the non-believers in God make it their life passion to denigrate and oppose any hint of religion soiling their (perfect) life.

I do not wish to impose Christian morality and values on the rest of the world, and in return I do not want to see the laws governing “us all” coming exclusively from the other camps.

Take for example one of Rex’s comments: “Accepting that a significantly large minority of people are born with a physical/psychological make-up which is not 100% heterosexual. And being prepared to accept that such people have just as much right to sexual and/or loving relationships as heterosexual people.”

First, what is that significant large minority? 0.1%, 1%, 10%, more? less?

There are no scientific proof that homosexuals are born “that way" (except for extremely rare biological abnormalities). So why should I be accepting of a deviate lifestyle presented to me and my kids as “normal” and be pronounced the homophobic for speaking my views.

It is impossible to reason together because we have different views about life itself, its origin, and our purpose in it.

You (I’m generalising here) see the here and now - unwanted pergnancy, STD, abortion... - no eternal consequences for your actions or beliefs.

Cause and effect of sin, real love, faith in God, etc have enormous behavioural implications, and cannot be put across to non-believers in a post or two.

I think - no, I truly believe - that the shoe is on the wrong foot here. There is a definite plan for living according to the creator of life and by deliberately choosing to stay outside this "plan" does not mean (you) are right or God's plan is wrong or obsolete.

In a perfect world I would have loved to see our children presented with both versions of morality - God's plan and all other theories -they deserve to know the difference and not just the religious-less aspect.

Sex education in schools i can speak from my own experiences private catholic schools teach the facts first then the religious views of it which is good because you can sleep through the second part they focus on it heavily and in the case of my old school they spent a week on STD's alone! In public schools however the oppurtunity is there for you to learn about that stuff if you want to whereas in private it is compulsory. there needs to be a system in place that can cater to the needs of all religions and rich private kids and normal publics can relate to.

Does God's plan still include the polygamy laws of Exodus 21?

or is the bible deviate?