Mirko wrote "Myuran and Andrew displayed an appalling lack of judgment by getting involved in drugs." Well, yes indeed.

But the authors assertion that they "never previously run foul of the criminal law" may well mean only that the law hadn't yet caught up with them.

There certainly appears to be credible evidence (yet to be fully tested) coming from the arraignment of other drug import conspirators here in Australia that this had not been the first drug trip. These two men also knew well enough not to actually carry any of the drugs themselves in an attempt to evade responsibility. But the other members of their party all attested to being threatened into compliance by these two.

So I personally feel no regret for the loss of these two or any burning passion to campaign for them to be spared the known consequences of their actions.

Are those consequences out of line with their culpability? Having seen the dehumanisation of heroin addicts, I personally think not, though I respect the fact that others will disagree. But I would certainly argue that since the consequences are extremely well-known, those who still try to smuggle drugs through Indonesia deserve everything they get.

I feel there are numerous people and social justice issues for which I would rather spend time and energy.

Regards

Kevi

I have got a simplistic mind set.If because of greed you are responsible for the death and degradation of vulnerable people , you die.
All the sobbing violins and bleeding hearts will never take away the pain that is the lot of families who have lost their young ones because some rotten swine wanted to make an easy life for him/herself.
I do not care how these toads are finished off, just so long as they are stopped from doing any more evil.

This is ridiculous.

'However, as Andrew put it, “We are not Ivan Milat, we would never do anything that we thought would hurt anyone”.

This is a point that has been missed by some people. All legal and ethical systems have a hierarchy of culpability. Intentional harm is at the top, indifference or carelessness is near the bottom'

How can you not think that importing heroin into Australia is going to do anything but hurt people? In my view these guys were intentionaly hurting other people (supply them with narcotics) with the aim of lining their own pockets.

Hang 'em high I say.

gw

I too must be simplistic.

I agree with Mirko that the death penalty is barbaric. I would never wish to see it reintroduced into Australia.

That being said, I also expect that visitors to Australia obey our laws and rules, and where criminal activity occurs, these people be treated in the same way that any other alleged criminal is treated.

Likewise, as a sovereign nation, Indonesia has the right to impose the same morality - their country, their laws, their punishment.

Myuran and Andrew knew the risks, took the gamble and lost. I would expect that you just don't wander oversees and find a heroin wholesaler. These two knew what they were doing.

Although I am sympathetic to their respective families, I have no sympathy for Myuran and Andrew and whatever fate awaits them.

Tonight I will be sitting down to a humble meal of Bombay patatoes, rice and pappadums. I would like to be able to put a $50 bottle of wine on the table but I can't afford it. Hell I would love to dine out. I can't afford to. Should I turn to drug importation in order to secure a better lifestyle with more 'up-market' meals?

Mirko, what ever happened to the word 'no'? It seems to have disappeared from our lexicon.

Mirko, you say that capital punishment is especially repugnant but many millions of Indonesians disagree with you and clumsy polypragmonic behaviour by Australia's clerisy and anointed will only harden the attitude of the Indonesians.

Mr Chan and Mr Sukumaran have been caught up in a world of confusion. In Australia the messages are 'harm minimisation' and 'recreational drugs' mixed in with lenient sentences for those dealing in drugs. Indonesia has a different view of those caught up in the milieu of illegal drugs.

Why don't we allow a sovereign nation to apply its laws to those who break the law.

Well, no, Narcissist. Nations, sovereign or not, do not have a right to arrange their own affairs in just any way that they might like. There are fundamental moral principles which transcend cultural differences in that they are presupposed by any attempt to be moral. Breaches of these principles justify intervention by other countries or (preferably) by the United Nations, first by remonstrance and argument, then, if the case is bad enough, by sanctions, and in extreme cases, by military intervention.

It is these principles which justify international law, including human rights law.

I would like to see how you would justify your claim that visitors to Indonesia ought to obey their laws and rules, and if engaging in crimes, should be treated like any other criminal, without appealing to principles which imply exceptions.

Similarly, I would like to see you justify your claim that visitors to Australia should obey our laws--or that we should. Doing so is not as easy as you might think.