Dear Irf

"If Muslim minorities do not stand up for the rights of non-Muslims in Muslim-majority states, their occasional claims to being oppressed minorities themselves will not be taken seriously."

Yes, you make that point well, and its a point well taken.

In fact, if there is to be ANY hope for a more positive image of Muslims in Australia, it is to be found in that little sentence.

What I struggle with though, is that 'your' understanding of Sharia seems at odds with those who use it in Muslim countries.

You say this death penatly/apostacy thing is a 'travesty' of Sharia.
Ok.. would you be willing to subject your understanding of this issue to a vote by leading Imams ? I found a Canadian article on a mainstream Canadian Muslim web site which argued very persuasively for 'understanding' on the issue of apostasy and how sensitive the issue is for Muslims, and how the death penalty for it should be 'understood' rather than opposed.

I gain the distinct impression that your understanding of Islam is more conditioned by the freedom we have here in Australia, than the cultural/religious millieu of Arab and Islamic countries.

So, the major issue for us is this "If Islam gained more of a foothold in Australia, would it be more of the 'Irfan/fair go' type or the 'other' type"?

You seem like a bit of a John the Baptist "A voice..crying in the wilderness" type rather than a spokesperson for Islamic values as most understand them. Its like most muslims are on the homeward bound lanes of an expressway during rush hour, and you are the lone car going 'into' the city....

I mean.. even Trendy Trad has a mistress/Sharia 2nd wife right ? do you ? I somehow doubt u do, u sound more like us, who would dissapprove of such things.

Your 'fair go mate' and F.H.'s 'niceness' will not convince us that there won't be significant 'Death to those who mock the Prophet' crowd among Aussie Muslims.

This is probably the worst pap I have seen you write Irfan.

Your moral equivalance of comparing gautanamo prisoners with Abdul Rahman is pathetic.

Your attempt to cast the Islam religion as moderate and sharia not calling for the death of converts from Islam is contradicted by a vast and consistent history of such practices.

The only way you could be less connected to the reality of this is if you started claiming that you were part of the 'reality-based' community.

Mangotreeone1,

I believe it was BOAZ_David who posted about ‘cockatoos and galahs’ - It says a lot about you when this is the one point you cling on to…

mangotreeone1, if you cannot engage the content of other's posts in a proper and respectable fashion, then I suggest you go play in the sandpit.

mangotreeone1, as I posted, when Muslims state to a young Australian girl, as stated in court documents, "you deserve to be raped because you are Australian" it is clear who the racist ones are - I am NOT racist for posting it - and mangotreeone1, you SHOULD be more interested in the racist Muslims who stated this in a rape of a young girl, and less interested in myself for having posted it...

It is clear, mangotreeone1, that YOU are racist… you do not speak out against racist Muslims who state, “you deserve to be raped because you are Australian”, but, you speak out against me for merely posting what racist Muslims have stated…

You clearly have some self-interest in protecting racist Muslims, and some self-interest in coming at me with charges that I have a “hatred for all Muslims” – which is clearly not true – just because I merely posted what racist Muslims have stated…

I will say it once more, mangotreeone, if you cannot engage the content of other's posts in a proper and respectable fashion, then I suggest you go play in the sandpit.

Mangotreeone1 = Islamofascist?

“WE TAKE IT FOR GRANTED THAT IT IS WRONG TO KILL SOMEONE FOR HIS RELIGIOUS BELEIFS. WHEREAS ISLAM HOLDS IT IS WRONG NOT TO KILL HIM."

It is NOT racist post, mangotreeone1, it is merely a fact - if it were not fact there would not be a thread on the discussion of a convert from Islam about to be killed, would there – think about it mangotreeone1!!

Else, go play in the sandpit and stop wasting other’s intellect on your stupid little posts.

Boaz and fellow Anti-Muslim Johadists,

As an average Muslim I truly believe that religious freedom is a must and in fact Islamic history proves it.

Its a part of Shariah law that I believe we Muslims should seriously reconsider.

However, there is little point ridiculing or blaming it only on Islam since many aspects of it is Arabic and African culture.

Christians who change their faith in many parts of Africa are either 'forced back' into their faith or executed by the masses.
Boazy, you know which countries I am talking about, its tribalism that should be dealt with in any religion that promotes it.

Peace,

Since OLO authers and sundry bloggers,including me, and sundry Godaphylics of all persuasions are so fascinated by Islam and Muslims, these 8 questions raised by Investor's Daily seem to be a fair measure of what the debates tend to revolve around.

I wonder if it would be possible to have a set piece/answers by OLO, written by Irfan et al, or even the so called Grand Mufti of Australia Hilali, that would concentrate on getting well argued answers to these 8 questions.

Perhaps then us infidels/pagans would have a better view of the whole thing.

Here's hoping.

http://www.investors.com/editorial/IBDArticles.asp?artsec=20&artnum=3&issue=20060327

Or, would a survey of all the leaders of the Islamic community, and other commenatators of note, be a better way to go. It would certainly be most revealing.

Irfan never ceases to amaze me. The subtle nature of his positions on these important issues comes through forcefully, yet much of what he says has absolutely no substance.

Right from the first sentence he is on the defensive, but to be fair, if my identity and values were being questioned non-stop perhaps I would be defensive, although only initially - once I saw that they were faulty I'd adopt new values, that's the western way.

He makes the quite feeble comment that only "a minority of hysterical Muslims" protested over the Danish cartoons. Come on Irfan, much of the Muslim world recalled ambassodors for Christ's sake!

The second paragraph is ambiguous. He says about the Afghani government "they seem to be doing something to stop the clear abuse of Sharia Law". Does he mean that in the sense that it's good that they want to kill the Christian convert?

Because he can't mean that there has been an abuse of Sharia in the sense that they've misinterpreted it. If that's what you were trying you fool nobody.

We know that killing apostates is Islam. By the way, your defence of it on your website (thanks to the OLO post that pointed it out) was pathetic. Some nonsense about there being tribal interpretations. Come on Irfan, why hide from it?

If you believe in the Sharia, which you've stated before, your sub-human. But to try to deny this teaching is real, or pass it off as a misinterpretation, is even worse.

Your comments about David Hicks are meaningless, we are at war with radical Islam. We can't have courts with western standards in these instances as they are too technical.