Dumbat, you need to beg for forgiveness, you said--- " 99.9% of all inventions come from Christian Nations so you can image that perhaps because of their religion they have become recipients of divine Blessins eh---end of quote-- does that included the tools to butchers human beings, the pleasure tools for sale in sex shops, you have bad dose of antichrist fatigue,
God is all powerful. stop spitting on the face of Christ on the Cross you Godless whatsitsname, mangotreeone1

mangotreeone1: Note didn't change your name nor have I/will I be abusive to you - I do think it detracts.
It's a fact re decent Government in the main in the Christian west. The other I asked a question perhaps it is religion and blessings. Why did I say that - well we in the west are not cleverer, smarter, more innovative so maybe it's religion. Of course I acknowledge that in religion we have not done as well as we should have but that's the only difference. We have freedoms in our religion and p/islam does not. numbat

Most of the laws we've introduced in the last 100 years, are derived from cultures other than monotheistic. They come from the Hittites, Mesopotamians, particularly the Sumerian's, the Veda and more recently indigenious cultures in environmental matters. Then we need to consider the laws, technological advances, ethical and valued advances that've come from non monotheistic controlled cultures in the past.

In Morocco, if you give up islam, your dead. No matter what they say, in any muslim country, your dead if you give up your islamic faith. Just like marrying out of any faith, your dead, maybe not physically, but in most other aspects.

The Hittites rewrote Babylonian laws (Abrahamic), because they were too violent. The Hittites were probably the first recorded secular state, that gave equality to women, slaves and even animals is some respects. Just like the last 100 years, when this country and others turned secular, since, we've been removing christian laws.

I believe we have surpassed religion and won't allow any laws that reflect a religious moral or conviction. The vast majority like our social progress, other than the religious threats constantly thrown at us.

Bd, the christians had laws forcing people to church for many centuries, on fear of flogging, racking, dunking, torture, even death. It was enforced on those transported here by religious bigots, on fear of flogging or other punishment. It was also enforced within the armed services of all christian dominated countries until the last century.

You try to enforce it now, with your constant threats of damnation and evangelism. Just like the muslims and the jews, one way for you, and buggar everyone else.

Alchemist,
Justice is a universal principle. Just because the ancients recognised this doesn't give it any more authority. Could you identify for me where I could find Hittite secular laws? The first principle of environment law was written in Genesis 2:15 - to nurture and care for creation.
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The Hittites came from Indo-European and captured territory in Asia Minor about 2,000 BC about 200 years before Abraham. Anittas was the first great king of the Hittites and his son is mentioned in Genesis 14:1.

It wasn't till after 1560 BC when King Telepinus captured Babylon that the Hittite constitution and laws were codified. The King was a religious and military leader of the people. The Hittite State was not secular as you claim the King was a leading Priest of Hittite religion.

[E. Neufield, Hittite laws-1951]The Hittite laws were more humane than than were the Babylonian and Assyrian; and they resemble the principles later set down in Mosaic law. They didn't use degrading mutilations on captives. The treaties with foreign powers were carefully respected.

Your claim they rewrote Abrahamic laws because they were too violent is not true and reflects your own preconceived-bigitory. Abraham lived under Hammurabi laws; monotheism had no national code of laws before Moses 1300 BC. This places Moses laws 140 years after King Telepinus, not before as you claim.
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Quote, "Most of the laws we've introduced in the last 100 years, are derived ...from the Hittites, Mesopotamians, particularly the Sumerian's, the Veda and more recently indigenious cultures in environmental matters. Then we need to consider the laws, technological advances, ethical and valued advances that've come from non monotheistic controlled cultures in the past. The Hittites rewrote Babylonian laws (Abrahamic), because they were too violent. The Hittites were probably the first recorded secular state, that gave equality to women, slaves and even animals is some respects. Just like the last 100 years, when this country and others turned secular, since, we've been removing christian laws. I believe we have surpassed religion and won't allow any laws that reflect a religious moral or conviction."

Philo, theres many links, you will note that there appears no reference to gods in their laws. As there were none that I know of in Hammurabi of Babylons laws. You will also note in the old testament, the jews were warned of living in Egypt because of their secular modern laws, that allowed gay marriages, as did lots of early societies.

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/HITTITES.HTM

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/1650nesilim.html

Which king are you referring to, considering there were many, as well as queens. They used many gods and accepted them from each area they occupied, just like modern secular societies allow, unlike monotheists. There was no “Telepinus” but a Telepinu. It was common throughout those ages for the king to be the high priest as they believed kings were closer to the gods then humans. Just like now, the queen is head of the English church, by definition. Hittite laws were secular and moderate, unlike Babylons, for which you could be killed for just about any misdemeanor. Just read their laws and tell me where you see gods in them.

Women played a notable part in society. Queen. Pudupepa, the wife Hattusili III 1275-1250 , was noted for her involvement with law making. Hittite law was more humane than both Babylonian and Assyrian law.

Being selective Philo, instead of viewing the whole of history is a common denial in monotheists. We have learnt monothiests are unreliable when it comes to truth and very discerning in determining how they try to construct truth. Just like your so called first environmental law, Genesis 2:15 - to nurture and care for creation.

Monotheists certainly have failed on that one, Bd wants to wipe out cockatoos, most multinationals are controlled by monotheists. The degradation of the land, sea and air, has been the hallmark of monotheistic societies. You never see your evangelists out their trying to save your gods creation. Just gorging themselves on your gods creations, enslaving them and hunting them down. Monotheists are fully involved in environmental destruction, up to their prayer books.

Reality is the whole world Philo, not just religious lies and day dreams.

Philo
In my comment about “the mystical, irrational layer” I was talking about religion, not the law.
There isn’t much point trying to discuss things rationally with people who believe in the supernatural.
It is not for me to disprove your delusions, it is for you to prove they are true, since you religious people are the ones promoting them.
Maybe you believe, like your mate Dobbadan, that some crackpot preacher in Guatemala really is raising 300 people back from the dead.
Maybe you don't believe that particular claim. I don't really care.
All I can say about the supernatural part of religion is, prove it beyond a shadow of doubt.
You will reply, “you’ve got to have faith”. To me this means believe; despite any lack of evidence.
Please continue to believe, if it makes you happy.