There's certainly a lot of drivel about these so called 'offensive' cartoons. Let's remember that the Danish newspaper in question is little known outside Copenhagen and nobody gave an actual toss untill Danish mullahs distributed them worldwide, in spite of their alleged offence of any depiction of their skyfairy of choice. These mullahs knew what they were doing - giving their fellow muslims a reason to slip into their default mode of killing and setting things afire. lets not forget those cartoons had a point. The apologic tone of some politicans and the press towards islam's anger management problems is sickening. after all, do americans riot when The Simpsons or Family Guy comes on TV? That this small democratic country with free press and a open society is subjected to a ridiculous organized campaign of lies and hatred is almost unbelievable. i really think if some people don't like free speech they can move to Iran.

http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/ArabCartoons.htm

have a gander at these cartoons. smell the hypocrisy?

Arjay,

I’m a fan of Dave Allen. He was mainly attacking catholics as any good Irish would.

I don’t know where you got the impression that eternity depends on our good deeds.

The only way to God is Jesus. Not religion.

R0bert,

Your misconceptions of “sin and judgement” are no excuse for amusing yourself and making pathetic jokes about it.

You choose to live the life you want and adopt the beliefs you fancy – that’s God's grace and your free will in action – just don’t make fun of Him, it just shows how sick you have become.

For someone who claims to have known God once, to turn to a moronic imbecile is not like you R0bert. You sound like some drunks in Central Park.

"For all have sinned and fall short of God’s glory" is the verse you were trying to quote. What it means is whatever you try to do cannot match God’s perfect Holiness. Any imperfection is unacceptable to God.

Harsh reality maybe be but it would have been real torture if God did not provide a way out.

When Adam and Eve fell short and disobeyed God – He didn’t just kick them out of the garden into hell, He provided clothes for them made of animal skins – killing for the first time was a sign of the ultimate sacrificial provision to come (Jesus).

God also put angels at the garden gate to “protect” the couple of re-entering and sinning again.

Jesus being the fullness of God Himself is also pure and sinless.

Sin entered the world with Adam (and Eve) and was taken away by Jesus.

When you’re drowning you are utterly dependent on your rescuer’s hand. It does not make you worthless. Just thankful.

Will that experience make you a good person? Perhaps not. But the fact is you have been rescued because you accepted the saving hand.

If you chose to ignore your life saver instead, and told yourself “I know better”, relying on your own intellect and willpower… could you ever save yourself?

coach, we are well off topic here other than the exercise of free speech.

Your drowning analogy is a start but you missed some bits.
- The rescuer is supposed to be one of your parents.
- You are genetically engineered and the parent skipped the bit that would have made you a natural swimmer.
- They made sure you never had swimming lessons, first time in the water is the only time.
- They tossed you in the water with some weights tied to your ankles (if everybody fails the test is set up that way).
- If you do happen to stay afloat you are left in the water anyway because their first kids drowned when he was tossed in.
- You only get rescued if you are prepared to go on about how good a parent they are and how bad a swimmer you are and promise to do what they say for ever more.

In that light I'm making for the shore of that island and I'll stay as far away from an abusive parent as possible. If sin is a consequence of free choice some should pass the test, the fact that everybody fails suggests that while we might have been given free choice about individual sins in total our makeup is such that we don't have free choice in that area. If your fantasy world existed it is a rigged game designed by a god with some serious issues.

Thankfully it is just a sick fantasy but unfortunately some take it seriously.

R0bert

What religion are you talking about, not Christianity.
- The rescuer is supposed to be one of your parents. (NO, He is supposed to be parentlike, He is an analogical father, not a genetic father. Father is the closest analogy we have, not the real situation)
- You are genetically engineered and the parent skipped the bit that would have made you a natural swimmer. (if God had made us sin free we would not be free, no free will.)
- They made sure you never had swimming lessons, first time in the water is the only time. (our time in this world is the swimming lesson, don't pass the lesson don't go on to the real experience)
- They tossed you in the water with some weights tied to your ankles (if everybody fails the test is set up that way). (the test is learning to distinguish sin from good, by age fifty some may have learnt, but at age 20 no one has much of a chance, so everyone is sinful, but some can recognise this and SEEK to change)
- If you do happen to stay afloat you are left in the water anyway because their first kids drowned when he was tossed in. (actually the first kid was thrown in to rescue the drowning, and succeeded)
- You only get rescued if you are prepared to go on about how good a parent they are and how bad a swimmer you are and promise to do what they say for ever more. (except they do not give you laws, so you have to make your own (promise to do what they say). And when someone saves you in the swimming analogy, what kind of an absolute ingrate would you be if you refused to thank the person, and then refused to even say that it was a good thing that they saved you (risking their own life)(good parent they are). And refused to admit that you were out of your depth in attempting to swim that far out (how bad a swimmer you are))

fida mae,
agreed that Father is analogy in terms of understanding of the christain God but working with coaches drowing example parent comes close enough.

If everybody sins it does not seem like we actually have an overall free will either - as I said we apparently have "free will" regarding individual sins but are not equiped to deal with the totality.

If the test mark is 100% everybody should have a fighting chance at the start, the fact that apparently nobody except the "real" son passed the test is a pretty good proof that the test is rigged.

The first kid I was refering to was Adam - original sin passed on down through the generations. Plenty of christains hold to the view that we stand condemed by Adams sin if not our own - Jesus avoided this by not having a human father.

Not much of an ingrate if the rescuer pushed me in that far out without my consent. None of us have any choice regarding involvement in this game the christian god supposedly plays with our lives, there is no point where we can choose to opt out (oblivion is better than playing your gods games). Basically the christain gospel seems to boil down to suck up to the christain god or get punished for ever.

I see no reason to be grateful for the person who takes me out to sea, pushes me off the boat then offers to rescue me so long as I recognise how great they are and how silly I was for swimming that far out.

R0bert