Rena, I'm not sure if it's possible to have free speech without saying potentially offensive things about anothers beliefs - different to deliberate ridicule but that line can get pretty mirky at times.

As an example from our own culture
- most christains believe that my life is so foul that I deserve an eternity of torment and suffering for my sin (or if not mine then Adam's - women are not important enough to pass on sin or so I've heard which is how Jesus avoided inheriting Adam's sin). That concept is a key part of their gospel without which their Gods wonderful plan to get me out of the consequences of breaking his rules does not hang together. Quite frankly the claim that no matter how well I live a just god will sentence me eternal damnation and torment unless I accept his good news plan is quite offensive.

Likewise my views on that particular plan and the associated god are somewhat offensive to many of those who regard that god as loving and just and who think the plan is "good news".

Maybe in the ideal world we'd all just keep our views to ourselves, in the meantime ridicule is a lot healthier than hitting each other.

In regard to the cartoons I suspect that some of the motives may have been to inflame a difficult situation but as a bystander to the European situation (and the Sydney one) it seems that this maybe part of a response to attempts by some adherants of the muslim faith to try and force others to change to accomodate their views on how things should be.

Not much fun for muslims who do respect the freedoms of those around them but one of the realities of life, hopefully they can take some comfort in the knowledge that the main target of the cartoons is those who use their faith as justification to make war on others. Those people who are the enemies of moderate muslims as much or more so than enemies of non-muslims.

Cheers
R0bert

R0bert,

You have definitely crossed the murky line yet again.

What’s going on man? Sometimes you sound quite reasonable then it’s like reading another poster.

The real “offensive” part is not God’s plan for your total freedom but how YOU ridicule God. Can you hear how childish you sound?

You have obviously been hurt in the past, but is it really worth risking the rest of your eternal life because of your unsubstantiated stubbornness and stupid pride?

Arjay,

Agree – Muslims fell insulted when people point at their religion. They don’t realise that the insult is Islam.

Rema,

I don’t see anything insulting about revealing the truth about your religion or anybody's. People do that all the time in a free society.

If they use metaphors, cartoons, posters, or verbal ridicule – the message is the same isn’t it?

Can you find someone who can defend islam from our accusations?

Check some of my recent posts to Fellow_Human – He couldn’t refute any. Could you?

Coach,I'd rather laugh in hell with Dave Allen for 30 minutes than spend and enternity with some boring authoritarian Allah,Yahweh or Christian God.The finality of of my being does not frighten me into submission to believe in some false belief system.To face the reality of our mortality takes more courage than being a do gooder that aspires only for rewards in the here after.I do good deeds because I want to see a more enlightened future generation.

The Traditional Religion view of our consciousness is indeed very limited.

coach, which part of my summary of the christian "sin and judgement" thing was incorrect? I intended to be somewhat provocative in the phrasing to make it clear to even the most oblivious how offensive that portion of the christain gospel is when you strip away the bubble wrap.

"For all have sinned and fall short" is an ugly concept when you consider who supposedly made the unwitting participants, who supposedly set that unachievable standard which all have failed to reach (except his own kid of course) and the punishment he supposedly has planned for all who don't meet the standard - except those who choose to acknowledge their own worthlessness and their utter dependancy on him.

The gain for some (but not all) of you is that you can stick your "Christains aren't perfect just forgiven" stickers on your lives and get on with a belief that how you live does not matter.

I've never found an "Agnostics aren't perfect, it just does not matter" sticker that I was comfortable with so I go on living on the basis that how I live my life does matter - to me even if I can't justify a long term meaning.

Christians can make the same kind of choice, they can decide that God has done the work and they will honour that by living their lives as well as they can or they can say Gods done the work, I don't have to do more and live worthless lives. Variations of the above probably apply to most belief (or lack of belief) systems, people can choose to do the best with it or use it as an excuse to live small lives.

R0bert

Amazing how the armchair nazis here will even have problems with a Christian priest telling the truth.

Consider this. Jakarta is a city of over 15 million people. How many people took part in the protests accounding to reports? Around 200.

Can anyone tell me about the cartoon protests in Uzbekistan? Or Mauritania? Or Bosnia? Or how about Bruneii? (Did I spell it right?)

For those here able to read English, please click here ...

http://ihsan-net.blogspot.com/2006/02/ignore-critics-muslim-response-to.html

Irfan come on, is this the limitation of your intelligence?Mere "Arm chairs of Nazis?"Really you'll have to do better or suffer the superior freedoms of the west.

You haven't even attempted to refute my concepts or those of numerous others who have laid bare the foibles of the Muslim philosophy.

As I've stated previously,it is your own women who are the archilles heal of this Muslim male arrogrance,and under our laws,if you don't treat them as equals,they will take your arrogrance to the cleaners.

There is no way Shariah law will save you,since we detest Taliban Facism.