The reality of sharia is the majority of the west are saying NO...

Carniflex,
yeh thanks for that link, even tho he's dropped the nidual islam site, and is on this new soft core sharia speak, it's still pushing the same garbage, did you notice the last para? LOL

GZ Tan - I am not the author. You are correct, I am new to this forum.

Scout - thank you for your comments. I agree with you that fundamentalism of any persuasion is something to be very concerned about.

The vast lack of knowledge regarding Christianity is beginning to scare me more than the idiocy of Islam and its western adherants, the lefties.

People seem to have taken the time to read up on some Quran commentaries and/or shariah commentaries and history of Islam. Could I please beg you to read up on some of the underpinnings of our own culture: Christianity and its history.

The key misunderstanding, in my veiw, is that people seem to be equating all religions as institutions who espouse religious law. This is completely erroneous! Islam and Judaism espouse religious laws. Christianity does not espouse laws.

Christianity has always been, at an individual level, about following your own feelings when confronted with a moral situation. This 'following of ones feelings' is where the christian usually will say that they are guided by the Holy Spirit in their actions, as it is believed within christianity that the holy Spirit influences us towards noticing beauty (especially moral beauty).

At a institutional level, this has not always been the case (witness discussion of paul's letters above). But in seeing only this institutional side of the coin people are easily missing the fact that Christians, even in the time of Paul, were actively questioning, not only Paul's words, but all aspects of life. Christians have never all followed one set of laws, and in situations where majorities did, such as in medieval europe, any serious Christian (both at the time, and now) would be quick to condemn the institutional leadership if not the institution in whole.

I come back to the major point of this post, Christians do not have laws. Only traditions and beliefs. For a Christian any statement in the Bible (OT and NT, or as one poster incorrectly preffered to call them; the torah (should have been 'tanak'- torah is only part of OT) is not binding, at all, get it through your heads.

Christ came to write the law on our hearts, so we would do right without some binding and corrupting idea of religious law

redneck,

"I am off the Hell with RObert. It should be fun. David will get to sit on a cloud singing hymns and hosannas, while you, Azilitz, can do whatever Muslims do in heaven. But Hell will have lots of hookers, gamblers, drunks, drug addicts, jazz players, US generals, rock stars, honky tonk pianists and people just like me. Hell is really going to swing."

You might want to watch out, if BD, coach and crew are right most of those well tanned people you don't like are off to hell with us. Some of them might be a tinsy bit upset with you for some of the things you said about them. Hopefully we will all be into forgive and forget by then but don't bet on it.

Back to your post I'm not so sure that all of the christains have realised that the bible is not the literal word of God. I think that some are being pragmatic about regaining lost power. Just have a look at the continual push to get Genesis taken seriously, if you can't have creation science in the schools then push for intelligent design (and once that is in get it back to creationism I suspect).

I've read of a period in the Islamic worlds history (particularly in muslim Spain) when there was great scientific and cultural progress which died off in the 12th and 13th centuries as religious fundamentalism gained ground. We face some of the same risks in the west as christain fundamentalism seeks to regain its foothold and domination of our lives.

A few articles which I found to give a quick look at the issues are
- http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2005/10/14/34137/655 (if you read nothing else read this)
- http://www.sullivan-county.com/id2/index.htm (I'm still working through this, seems to be similar views in part to many anti-muslims but does appear to try and put some context to the issues)
- http://www.islamonline.net/english/Contemporary/2002/05/Article21.shtml
- http://www.iol.ie/~afifi/Articles/science.htm (the last two appear to be muslim authors and are mostly about issues facing muslim Science)

R0bert

Robert, you only have one failed marriage? Just imagine having four wives nagging all at once and making demands all at once, it 'ud be enough to drive a bloke to drink.....except he is not allowed to drink on account of his religion. No wonder they are all a bit weird.
As for the bible and/or any other notable book, it is claimed they are God's words. I would want some proof before I swallowed that line.
Preferably from Himself.

The Maths and realities of Islamic Shariah law?

Did I read that correctly?

Let me see now. That would be:

The mid east tectonic rift zones, in the poor western rainfall shadow of the Himalays, that is the world's biggest geothermal OIL producing pressure cooker

Plus

First world nation deals that put most of the oil in western gas tanks at market price but where the OPEC vendor hoardes all the loot and keeps his people poor

Equals

A few really rich and powerless sheik dudes who are sneakier than a snake in the grass

Plus

Oh about ONE BILLION really pissed off people who under any other circumstance would be the salt of the earth.

Maths ... ya gotta love it!