Meg, yes I support abortion up to the end of the first tremester, which should be the right of every woman on the planet! In a sense its a compromise between the holy sperms fanatics and the partial
birth abortion people. Its worked extremely well in much of Europe.

Women in Europe are aware, that if they accidently fall pregnant and can't cope with another child, they have to make a decision early in
the pregnancy. So by far the majority of abortions happen early, which I see as a good thing.

On a philophical level however, I personally don't have a problem with abortion, until a fetus becomes a baby, or a so called person.
The evidence shows that the human brain reaches that point at around
week 25-26. I don't believe in the sanctity of potential people,
but people.

One would think that if we lived intelligently and sustainably on this planet, there would be space for both baby humans and a few
baby chimps, but not according to you it seems. Sustainability and the future of our planet, are not part of Catholic dogma, so Meg doesent seem to care either.

You are in denial about the affects of Catholic dogma in Africa.
If parents had the choice to only raise as many children as they were able to feed and clothe, much of Africa's problems would go away. Corrupt Govts exist all around the world, they are not specific to Africa. When Catholic pro life commandos go burning condoms in pharmacies, with Govt approval, clearly members of that Govt have been influenced and manipulated by the Catholic Church.
Nobody else in the world promotes that kind of ludicrous dogma.

Droughts are a normal part of nature. The idea is to put away in good years, to provide for bad years. If women are forced to have far more children then they can feed or clothe, clearly there is nothing left to put away for bad years.

The Catholic Church, due to its fanatical interference in Govt policies, is responsible for much hunger and misery in Africa.

Meg1

How unfortunate that you do not understand a hypothetical question.

Anyway, if there are any anti-choice/pro foetus readers still left on this fast unravelling thread I extend the following HYPOTHETICAL question:

What, in your opinion, should be done with the surplus embryos no longer required for In Vitro Fertilisation?

Dear Dianne,

Christianity is a strange beast indeed. It is attacked for being too free and fancy and not realistic then at the same time too narrow and limiting. Damned if the universe is too big damned if it is too small.

One view claims that the universe is an accident and our existence a matter of chance. That death is final.

The other sees the universe a result of design and our existence a part of that design. That glory and joy beyond imagining awaits in Heaven.

Whether true or not Christianity is the much more liberal philosophy than is philosophical materialism.

God chooses not to exercise the power to prevent us believing lies about him. Yet the truth is God loves us so much he wants to just eat us up. We have to be patient with a God who is denied all the usual means we use to communicate love.

Of course our first responsibility is ourselves and included in that is deciding for ourselves what constitutes the good life. Intellectual honesty demands a proper hearing for Christianity here, and sentences like “there is no evidence” look very much like excuses for not thinking.

“Why do I need to be a Christian – why can’t I just live my life and be a good person”. Which sounds a lot like believing a thing because its agreeable not because it is true.

God offers glory, joy and lasting happiness a position humans were created to enjoy. He can’t offer anything outside this because God can’t be something he is not.

Lets say you created little beings whom you loved. You put great effort into designing a world that would be wonderful for them. You gave them freedom. You hope that they will want to get to know you because you are their creator and no one can love them as much as you do. What you have to offer is simply enormous because you are good and know what is good for them.

They decide to stick their finger up at you and call you a tyrant for making demands of them. They are going to do things their own way.

They in their capacity as co creators create death, something never in your plan.

You designed them and their environment and its impossible for you to keep your children and at the same time redesign the world, change who you are and bow to the demands of your little children to make a new world apart from you.

They don’t have the ability to make worlds, to know what you know and what is best for them, because they can’t have your massive mind. What do you do? You are hurt but you love your little children very much.

You eventually go to extraordinary lengths to rescue your beloved children and take up their nature into yourself - become like them and live among them. You show them who you are, as much as they are able to take, and urge them to follow your lead not those who would lead them to dead ends.

You present a threat to those whose power comes from entrenched ideas and are taken and slowly tortured to death. You bless and forgive them as you’re dying.

But your plan is not foiled, little do they know that in this event you have cancelled death’s power forever. You have defeated it. Your life is not in time, like theirs is, so the nature you change by bringing it into yourself works backwards and forwards in their time.

This new life is available now and all that your children need to do to live with you, to be raised up, is that they accept this life with a humble and open heart.

When you return as a new creation, body and soul united in glory you show your people what awaits them. Things beyond their wildest dreams. There exists one thing that is not too good to be true.

Come follow me, I will be with you even until the end of the world.

Scout, your ‘hypothetical’ question wasn’t even legitimate as a hypothetical question – for all the reasons I’ve given.

Ask those who ‘own’ them…and have sought control over their lives.

Yabby, your lack of consistency is only overshadowed by your egotistical judgments of others.

In fact, I do believe in sustainability and sharing this planet with other species…and do my bit to ensure it in my own corner of the world. However, so many of the frenetic, fanatical, animals-at-the-expense-of-humans brigade, like you Yabby, have such a twisted set of priorities regarding the environment and other humans that you do more harm to other species by alienating most rational human beings who would otherwise work well towards that end.

Instead of indicating practical and workable initiatives, you prefer to attack the integrity and intent of others and suggest killing off babies is the solution to all the world’s ills…and of course there’s the obsessive paranoia about the Catholic Church thrown in to boot, just to prove your own questionable motives.

I wonder how much you do to dirty your own hands and show others conservation in action?

If your neighbour is clearly not using the recycling bin properly would you:

1. Report him/her to the relevant authorities?

2 Attack him/her verbally over the fence and bad-mouth him/her in the neighbourhood?

3 Ask if he/she understands the system and offer to sort the rubbish if necessary until he/she feels comfortable using the system…

From your diatribe of assumptions and abuse, I’d say either or both of 1 & 2.

In fact, I became aware of a woman who was elderly, isolated by a mental breakdown and afraid of the ‘environmental audits’ done on recycling bins…and so put all her rubbish in the regular bin to avoid fines, confrontation and ‘making a mistake’.

Not an environmental vandal, not a bad person, not a deliberate attempt to sabotage the local recycling program…just in need of a little compassion and understanding.

tbc

(cont...)

A little thing in the big picture, Yabby, but a gentle enquiry and the offer of help to learn the system and she now confidently not only uses the recycling bin, but also recycles other waste and is becoming involved locally in other initiatives.

The additional benefits are her own personal health and confidence is greatly enhanced.

Personal effort was involved, but the result was a win-win.

Contrary to your bigoted assumptions, Yabby, I was raised to use what I need not what is greed…to think of those who come after and to leave things as good as or better than when I came. Each of the homes I have rented, have been left with suitable trees planted and cared for at our expense, environmental areas around cleaned and maintained by us as a family interest and without resorting to attack and vitriol to do so. We simply see and do as our faith and common sense encourage us to do.

I’ve seen no evidence that you have any sensitivity to those shut out by your judgmental and bigoted opinions and agenda. You decide that the way to go is to kill babies and attack the Catholic Church and the world according to Yabby will be all things to all chimps…and you wonder why some thinking homo sapiens question your agenda or the credibility of your argument?

You not only pass inaccurate judgments on others, but you present fabricated and distorted statements about Africa and such things as Catholic Church views on the environment.

It is clear that you have little credibility and no intention of putting forward any evidence on any of your bigoted claims or misrepresentations.

Yabby, you indicate little practical or personal contribution to society in general, but indicate far more about your own inadequacies by your jaundiced assumptions of the intent or contributions of others.

MIW you make valid and contrasting posts to those filled with paranoid hatred from others, keep it up.

It is important to retain the belief that all humans have good in them, even if some have it well hidden.