CS Lewis in his book 'The Great Divorce' is a short book about Heaven and Hell Pericles. You could get it from the library maybe, otherwise its not that expensive its a short book.

Heaven to us will be like the 3-D world to a 2-D cartoon. If a 2D cartoon encountered our drawing of a cube, representing depth he would think it was just a couple of squares offset from one another and connected by straight lines. Those 2D 'believers' who tried to tell him that it was a representation of what the other world was like would be scoffed at.

"I know what they are, its nothing like what you say. They're just squares you silly people"

That is what earthly life is like, everything is an image of the divine or infernal life.

This is not our home, we were made for Heaven. There will be no more seperation, no lack and desire. Complete comsummation. We become the music I think CS Lewis said.

I want to join everyone in that community, in that family. I don't want to worship in the religion of myself, that gets me nowhere. Its a lie.

A great banquet has been prepared for us by someone who loves us, we'd have to be made to reject all the info we've been given.

They're all lies - the ones that whisper "loving God will turn you into a slave. You can't survive the loss of all that you think is your self. God is cruel. You'll die."

Just wait for the other spirit who'll tell you "now this is the life!"

Dear Pericles
my last post must have canonned of you and out into the nether world or something :)

But regarding heaven.
Plenty of references if you look for them. You can gain an overview from such sites as even 'Religious Tolerance' which provide the various views from across the spectrum. (from the sublime to the rediculous)

Pauls expressed it as "With Christ" and it was something he longed for.

Rev 21
"Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."

Sounds pretty good to me. Please note the absence of 'sensual' pleasures which could attract people for the wrong reasons. Quite a contrast to the self indulgent and 'smothered in servants/virgins/slaves' of the Islamic paradise, which is to me just an extension of the carnal desires of the natural man. Quite obviously one of those "Religion/God made in the image/imagination of man".

Heaven and the afterlife are more about the deepest longings of man being fulfilled, rather than shallow and transitory sensuality. So, sorry.. NO sex in heaven :) (and the absense of the desire for it)
The lion will lay down with the lamb etc.. imagery of peace.

I guess to those who do not know the reality of Christ in their hearts, 'heaven' as portrayed here may not seem so attractive. But that is what being 'born of the Spirit' is about, it also changes our centre of gravity as a person. I think it would be a grave mistake to project our current understanding of life and existence (with its inherant limits) onto a "heaven" subject to those same limits and experiences. Heaven will be a place/condition of ultimate joy.

The metronome mobs replies certainly gives weight to the theory of reincarnation, which follows the theory of growing intelligence as one evolves through many reincarnations. For those of little knowledge, reincarnation does not prescribe that we return as animals, but that all life has a series of reincarnative lives according to their species.

It goes this way, in our first life we know nothing except what we are programed with in natural life. In subsequent incarnations, we reach the stage of superstition, fear and illusion (religion). This can go through many incarnations because of the reluctance of many to step beyond their fears into the reality of evolving knowledge.

Next stage is when we see that our fears are unfounded and the reality of evolving knowledge breaks the shroud of superstition, allowing us to see our universe as a constantly evolving and changing reality.

Then we reach the stage, when we can see beyond this existence and realise that we can leave this reincarnative state and move forward to the next dimensional evolution.

Those unable to break free of their illusional superstitions, keep reincarnating until they run out of lives. So like all things that have passed their use by date, they are shuttled to the eternal tip, commonly called heaven.

As our species and others have evolved since life began on earth, so has the first reincarnation. Now new beings reincarnate at the lowest intelligence level of this time, ie religion.

So there, my story is better, more scientifically possible, rational and logical, than all of yours, nah nah nah nah nah.

To the poor sod who stated, “These people with a 'death's door' experience? did they actually die?” describe your expertise and experience in this matter. Typical comment from know nothings, I can describe my personal experiences in vivid detail. Denying this, surely defeats your believe in intelligence after death

Aziliz, sorry I'm a He not a Her, bit hard to tell over the this forum we lose some dimention here.

The difference with Christianity is GRACE.
the Substitutionary Atonement of God He died in our place.

Like i said before Religion is mans way to God and Grace through Christ is Gods way to man.

Also Aziliz, your understanding of scripture is only superficial. when God wiped out a race of people, the bible seems clear to indicate that there were impurities.

Satan did all he could to corrupt the line of man, he had fallen angles lay with daughters of men, genesis 6:2 these Hybrid offspring also seemed to be the main reason for the Flood.
Bible talks of Noah being perfect in His generations Gen 6:9
But also states that this Hybrid problem was to continue post flood Gen 6:4

The result was a people which the Bible calls 'Mighty men...men of renown' which could account for many of the Greek tales of giants, and other 'gods' in their Mythologies.
There were a number of tribes such as the Rephaim, the Emim, the Horim, and Zamsummim that were giants.

The kingdom of Og, the King of Bashan, was the "land of the giants." Later, we also find Arba, Anak, and his seven sons (the "Anakim") also as giants, along with the famed Goliath11 and his four brothers.

When God had revealed to Abraham that the land of Canaan was to be given to him, Satan had over 400 years to plant his "mine field" of Nephilim in his attempt to thwart the plan of God.Gen15:13-21

Moses sent his twelve to reconnoiter the Land of Canaan, they came back with the report of giants in the land. (The very Hebrew term used was Nephilim.) Their fear of them resulted in their being relegated to wandering in the wilderness for 38 years. When Joshua later entered the land of Canaan, and wipe out every man woman and child (which is disturbingly severe)it would seem that in the Land of Canaan, there once again was a "gene pool problem."

This is by far the most illuminating thread on religious beliefs so far... way ahead of that very worthy, but very dull, new piece by Mr Sellick.

What we have here is not a discussion confined to the minutiae of a debate between religious scholars and their petty factions, but a fundamental, basic, raw analysis of what is what.

coach has already given up, and resorted to mumblings... "What was written 2000 years ago is as fresh as today’s paper. Read it.. Get it directly from the source. I'm sure you can manage that instead of making a fool of yourself on OLO."

Insults don't work here, coach, get a grip.

Martin offers another C S Lewis fantasy as a descriptor of heaven. Did you read it, Martin? It is actually a dream, which allows the narrator to avoid all the difficult questions that he poses in the body of the book. Much as a nine-year-old's adventure story will end, just in time, with "...and then I woke up".

By the way, it is also inconsistent with the many bible references to heaven. Paul had a similar idea to C S Lewis of the qualifications to reach heaven, that a thirty-second profession of faith (by a sinner) was a qualification to enter, while a religious and virtuous lifetime was, of itself, not. This is at odds with fellow gospellers Matthew, Mark, and Luke who emphasized salvation by good deeds and attitudes. How can we get there if we don't know the rules?

(Incidentally, when did heaven introduce the internal combustion engine? And if visitors still tour around on a bus, they can't have found an alternative source of energy yet... sorry, greenies)

What are we to make of this? Is the existence of heaven an integral part of the Christian faith? If so, why are there many different images of its composition, and variations on the qualifications required for membership?

I suspect the answer doesn't really matter, since it is the concept of eternal damnation that has been the major coercion factor over the centuries. The stick, not the carrot.

Edi
That was a rippingly good yarn you just posted...
I wonder if the "fallen angels", were in fact aliens?
I also like the Alchemist's story. Did you see "Blackadder" on UK TV last night? They had the one about the Archbishop on last night, that was good fun, too.
All good fun, but I'm not sure it gets us any closer to reality.
All the best anyway...