PHILO

It would be rather hypocritical for us to force young people to stay in school until they show 'good character', while our government does not display any such qualities. A government that values economic growth above personal, spiritual and intellectual growth will never nurture an atmoshpere of tolerance and understanding - particularly when their first reaction to any disagreement is to immediately support the war-mongering USA in attacking an already war-torn country, and reducing most of it to rubble, leaving innocent civilians without power or water - let alone access to education!

Alchemist

I just wanted to let you know that you are spot on - religious zealots make up the majority of people that support 'economic growth' and the sociological and environmental degradation it causes.
Religion is widely used as a justification for a lack of social and environmental ethics, particularly the continuation of cruelty to animals and humans, and the continuation and expansion of an individualistic, mechanised society, in which everyone holds an attitude of 'Looking out for No. 1' and does not consider their actions in relation to the needs and concerns of other people and animals (George Bush springs to mind......)

As you stated so succinctly, the defensiveness of religious zealots regarding their long history of abusive behaviour only accentuates my belief that they have not applied any reasoning or intellect to their choice, and (again, much like George Bush, they do not appear to have questioned the basis of their religion, or compared it with their existing knowledge and experience of the world).
Taking on a faith or religion 'unquestioningly' shows (to me anyway) a naive acceptance of views which were formed 2000 years ago, and which have been interpreted according to the beliefs of the individual passing on the story.....and then somehow construed as being entirely relevant to modern society!?!
Beliefs which were 'set in stone' such a long time ago have resulted in an inflexible and restrictive set of views, which coulod certainly do with some revision for a modern, socially aware society - but thats not how the Church wants it - they have more power the way it is now - with their power and authority 'set in stone' as it were.
Anyway, good to see someone putting the religious zealots in their place.

mir: Yea probably right as regards religion, but remember there is an awesome gap between Christianity and man made religion. numbat

Numbat, I understand what your trying to say, there should be a difference between the blind evangelistic and the reality of your beleifs. But there isn't.

To understand christianity fully and be able have faith in it, you have to read all of its history. Christianity follows a very small part of christian history and rejects anything that doesn't fit to their narrow concept.

Those that wish to fully understand the true nature of a religion, must read all there is to know about it, or you can't know it. Would you jump into a jet and take of, if you had only read the introduction. To feel safe flying in your understanding of the jet, you would read everything you could about it, then you become knowledgeable and able fly it.

Its the same for belief systems, if you read all the history and really check it out, you will have a real understanding of that religion and what it involves. Your belief system would be different, but it would still display the same ethics and aims that you seek from it.

There is no difference between any religion, they all fail to see it from the entire aspect, just narrow little bits to suit themselves. Why, because they are afraid, afraid that the truth will show them to be what they are, inadequate and not capable of taking responsibility for their lives.

To just take parts of the full story and reject the majority, so that you don't have to be what it truly represents, is truly a sign of a lost soul

Thanks Mir, you are right, thats just about how it is and was. There are those that worship many books, that allude to knowledge and they all have knowledge to give. The problem is that they only worship a chapter of the book, just like those that read a revue of a movie then comment on it. Just as false.

The alchemist: We, my Wife and I, have read widely and we do have different beliefs than those of religionists. Actually we are stunned by what we have learned from various sources.
We are totally convinced that there is a great Creator and that He has a wonderful future for us all - including you.
Would you believe that He loves us with a fervency that we cannot possibly imagine or deserve.This Great God WANTS to be with us, wants to react to us, wants to live with us - it is beyond belief!
Yet we do not go to a mainstream church with all its bells and smells. We do not follow elaborate church rituals nor are we governed by a dictatorial, overbearing religious hierachy.
Please keep an open mind about Christianity at the same time repudiate totally stupid closed dogmatic religion - all of them!numbat

mlr,

You show your political and anti religious bigitory rather than poffer answers to real situations. Your lack of research and honesty is appalling with this comment: "A government that values economic growth above personal, spiritual and intellectual growth will never nurture an atmoshpere of tolerance and understanding - particularly when their first reaction to any disagreement is to immediately support the war-mongering USA in attacking an already war-torn country, and reducing most of it to rubble, leaving innocent civilians without power or water - let alone access to education!"

The fact is there are more children in schools in Iraq than at any time in the past 22 years of Iraq's history. You prefer a world of destruction as it suits your political psyche that prefers the denegration of a free society. My nephew served seven months in Iraq and assisted in the reconstruction of its society - so I have first hand contact with one who helped build present Iraq. You appear to take your credibility from the "Socialist Weekly" a subersive anti-democratic journal. I suggest you read information put out by the new Government of Iraq for real balance.