Is that the Govt. installed by the 'coalition of the killing'. Rebuilding what they destroyed.Bringing back the thousands dead. You are mad and positively dangerous.

The Alchemist,

Dear Al,

>>To understand christianity fully and be able have faith in it, you have to read all of its history.<<

You can read and study all you want and pester the entire world around you and maybe collect a disciple or two (mIr); but you will never ever discover “faith” that way. The type of faith that is required to understand the mind of God, to hear His voice and His guidance.

There are so many theologians – I’m not suggesting for a second that you are one – who have not a clue of what is required to be a follower of Christ.

Jesus chose simple people to impart his teachings. If He was trying to start a “Religion” He would have written theses, publish documents and have His own books like the all other religions you so delight in attacking.

Instead He simply lived ‘simply’, He revealed who he was: the Son of God, and One with God, He performed the many miracles and signs, He proved and confirmed the prophesies related to himself, and He willingly (not without human struggle) went to the cross, died as the lamb of God, but then defied death and resurrected Himself as only God can.

What followed is the witnesses to these events could not deny nor contain what they saw and most died horrible deaths for retelling, and clinging to their first hand vivid accounts of Jesus.

Simple story, simple people, huge implications for humanity.

To dismiss who Jesus was and is, is just incredible – it is rejecting life itself it defies comprehension.

No one can erase Him from History – but many have tried and are still trying

Numbat
It's refreshing to hear about your approach to spiritality – it sounds much more positive than unquestioningly following a large and highly structured, hierarchical (and patriarchal) system of churches and other material links to a spiritual being.

Philo
I have never read Socialist Weekly. I do read current scientific journals though. My beliefs come from a deep respect for humans, animals and all parts of the planet on which we live – to which I believe we have a responsibility, as it is in our care.

I actually have a huge respect for all religious belief, as many of these doctrines espouse positive morality and ethics, and a respect for others – no matter what their creed or religion. What I do have a problem with is people who take specific parts from religious beliefs, and then attempt to apply them without considering the situation from the perspective of others, or condemning those with differing beliefs.
It appears that you are one of those who strongly denies the huge number of civilian casualties in the current wars – this is evident from your justification and naïve acceptance of the word of one soldier from Iraq(and you probably listen to what George Bush says too).
I know that there are reconstruction works being carried out in Iraq, but much of the reconstruction would not have been necessary were it not for the broadly destructive methods employed by those invading the country.
I cant expect you to understand my viewpoint, as a hierarchic, patriarchal society obviously serves your needs well – so why would you want to subscribe to anything else?
That you would unquestioningly accept the word of a pro-American Iraqi government shows a true lack of insight into human behaviour and politics.
Hedgehog's comments ring uncannily true for me too.

mir,
Most of the civillian casualties that have occurred since the intitial entry of the coalition into Iraq have been caused by Sunni Muslims who object to democracy being established because they are a minor tribe who formerly held power in Iraq. They murdered Iranians and Kurds while Saddam Hussein was in power. Murder of civillians is not a new agenda for them. Perhaps you support these murderous thugs more than the Coalitions' purpose to establish democratic rule, public education and health.

I,ve read the reports of Saddam Hussein's former Senior minister for defense; and have several Iraqi friends former soldiers of Saddam who defected to the West. They still have family there including uncles and cousins and several had been murdered by Saddam. They knew the possibility of civillian casualties but preferred that Saddam be removed because of his terror upon civillians rather than accidental death of relatives from friendly fire.

It is all very fuzzy to cry "NO WAR' but I suggest you take that message to Saddam and feel his response. Tell that message to civillians terrorised by Saddam and hear their response. You are deaf to the cries of the innocent who are terrorised by Barbarians.

Numbat, as long as you keep your religion to yourself and don't try to change others, except by your example. Then I support your right to those beleifs. However the other path of evangelistic terrorism (conversion), only provides an example of contempt for the rights and beleifs of others. That appears to be the intent of most religious posters.

Coach, I doubt you'll ever grow up. One day you may be able to see, that here, you are talking to intelligent well read people, not people like you. What you say, leads us to believe that you have little experience of the world, outside your religious suburbia.

I don't' have to support my beleifs or preach them, they give me total satisfaction for now and in the future beyond the grave.

Coach, “To dismiss who Jesus was and is, is just incredible “ Yes it is, I understand by your posts, that you are trying to hide the fear and remorse at your lacking. But not understanding being in that position, almost amazes me between laughs.

However, I won't pray for you, I wouldn't curse you with that.

Philo, for the sake of the future I hope your right about Iraq. But History and the current approach, shows me that you are very wrong about the reasons and outcomes. Iraq may have been bad, but it was isolated and as can be seen by what they found after the invasion, it was slowly collapsing. The invasion has just turned everyone against each other, widening the problem to further destablise the area. Another bent religious ploy that always seems to fail.

mlr said:

1/ -Religion used as justification for a lack of social and environmental ethics
2/ -cruelty to animals and humans
3/ -expansion of an individualistic, mechanised society,
4/ -in which everyone holds an attitude of 'Looking out for No. 1' and
5/ -does not consider their actions in relation to the needs and concerns of other people and animals.

mlr, would you mind substantiating a few of these accusations ?

Which religion ? (all ? if so, how so ?, do they all have the same effect ?) please demonstrate this from their teachings and source documents. Would you mind beginning with

Christianity,
Islam,
Buddhism,
Hinduism.

make sure you show how EACH of these faiths cause EACH of the charges you laid.

I’m afraid that when you come out with such a mouthful, you pretty much invalidate your own credibility as does Alchemist with his shotgun broadsides. I don’t think many take them seriously.

[know that there are reconstruction works being carried out in Iraq, but much of the reconstruction would not have been necessary were it not for the broadly destructive methods employed by those invading the country.]

I don’t think you have done your research mate. Could you answer this ?

“How much of the reconstruction delay is caused by IRAQIS and OUTSIDERS who are trying to cause social disillusionment on the one hand and an Islamic state on the other, but both with only ‘power’ and privilege as the goal. The Iraqi’s who are driving the insurgency, are those who represent the failed state which survived ONLY by oppressing the Kurds and Shia ...is that what u want ?
Do you not see anything positive in the removal of Sadaam and his murdering raping at whim sons and their discriminatory oppression ? Ok.. the US gets a guarantee of oil.. wooooo like no country has ever done that :) You LIVE on land which was STOLEN...does your conscience extend to returning it ? should we all ? If not, why not ?

Do you believe in the tooth fairy as well as a perfect world ?