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The Forum > Article Comments > Profiling a persistent menace > Comments

Profiling a persistent menace : Comments

By Taimor Hazou, published 5/1/2006

Taimor Hazou argues removing racial profiling in NSW would be a valuable step in breaking down tensions.

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Taimor, Yes, clearly studies show that labelling of any kind creates discrimination. In some instances this discrimination may be detrimental E.g. seeing someone as their disorder rather then being a person. However, I would suggest that not all discrimination is harmful. Why is it wrong to be able to discriminate between a person of Lebanese descent and one of English descent? Would an Australian Aborigine wish their aboriginality to be ignored - I suggest not. Most people are proud of their heritage and wish to have it acknowledged. People self-label, among other reasons, as a matter of pride and of holding onto identity. Changing the racial profiling policy will not alter self-labelling, therefore this discriminaton will continue....as it should.

I feel that natural discrimination is being greatly confused with racism.

Coraliz
Posted by Coraliz, Monday, 9 January 2006 10:34:03 AM
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Coraliz, thank you for some constructive input. I understand the point you make, but unfortunately the evidence does not bear this out. While it may feel natural to categorize by race, the reality is id does not work! For example, there was one comment that took offence, as Aussies not being able to distinguish between races. The reality is evidence shows this to be true. First, Arabs are Caucasian. Second, people can NOT distinguish between races, evidence has continually proven this for example. If a media alert suggests that a person of ME appearance committed a crime and police want information. The public tends to translate this into 'guilt by association'. If for instance, the perpetrator was a large muscular, olive skinned, man of 6ft, wearing, bikey paraphernalia; the public has difficulty in distinguishing this from a 'hooked nose man with dark, skin, long beard and wearing Arab dress. The reality is people rely on stereotypes to inform their decisions. So the police get a lot of phone calls leading on goose chases.
My argument is that this then translated into attacks in Cronulla of anybody of ME appearance including women in hijab. This was validated by the use of the term, even if meant attacking women in hijab, who common sense would dictate had nothing to do with the attacks on the life guards.
Finally, I find some of the comments extremely off putting and telling about some of the views held in public. I am an Aussie Arab and proud of it (on both sides). My article does not attack Australians or Australian values (in fact, I find it quite bizarre that some people have superficially translated it as such). It’s an opinion piece that raises some serious alternative views about social politics & public policy. Why is it then translated into defensive responses about rejecting Australia. It is a confident and public discourse on some real issues as they pertain to contemporary Australia. I think these comments say more about the 'rejection, isolation, and finger pointing' of Arab Aussies than they do about how Arabs-Australian feel themselves.
Posted by taimorh, Tuesday, 10 January 2006 1:54:34 PM
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Taimor

While you now claim your article was exclusively dealing with racial profiling it contained blatant anti Australian propaganda. Your article also dealt with, and unreasonably so, what you saw as an issue of racial violence in Sydney. You apportioned blame for the Cronulla riot only to racist Anglo Australians. You lacked balance and only once looked at the racial profilling by the Lebanese Muslim youth gangs and their outrageous racial intolerance and criminality. You blamed racial profiling for that disgrace.

By blaming the police, government and generally law abiding citizens for the violence in Cronulla, you are in denial about the issues of Lebanese Muslim youth gang violence.

When you say things like:

‘Clearly, prejudice and xenophobia have played a substantial role in the racially motivated violence of recent days.’

It is fair to ask you why you did not mention the previous violence at Cronulla and in other parts of Sydney. You still avoid criticism of that and dismiss it's influence on the actions of people at Cronulla. In fact that can reasonably be construed as truely a head in the sand attitude.

Oh you might be right about Australians not being able to distinguish between races. It certainly applies to the NSW police. Reports are now appearing that after the violence in Cronulla and other suburbs in Sydney on that Sunday not one person of middle eastern appearance has been arrested.

Now why don't you ask the police why one bunch of rampaging hooligans gets arrested and charged but another group who also went on a rampage doesn't? That as a proud Australian should concern you more for it tears at and renders the very fabric of our proud heritages of egalitarianism and of a fair go. But then again so too does your argument...
Posted by keith, Tuesday, 10 January 2006 3:03:48 PM
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I have posted a similar but longer version in the other forum. Moslems are allowed to and are encouraged to lie to all unbelievers.
The term for this 'dissimulation' is 'Takiya' or al-Takiya'
So how can we believe anything you moslems may write in this forum when you are allowed to use deceit.
I will add that I do not hate nor am I at war with pagan islam - but!
Quote: :We declare ourselves to be clear of you, and enmity and hatred have appeared between us and you forever until you believe in allah alone (60:2-4)" end of a very hatefilled miserable quote from the religion of peace. numbat
Posted by numbat, Tuesday, 10 January 2006 6:56:20 PM
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Profiling- from a range of definitions this is the most apt in this circumstance –
“recording a person's behaviour and analyzing psychological characteristics in order to predict or assess their ability in a certain sphere or to identify a particular group of people”.

Nothing “racist” about that.

Nothing “racist” when a doctor says “overweight smokers are more likely to have a stroke or diabetes”, it is just “profiling”.

So what is Taimor Hazou whining about?

If he thinks being called “of middle eastern appearance” is racist he needs to grow a thicker skin and get over himself a little.

Does “classification” mean racism?
No.
It never has done and never will do. All it does is facilitate communication about some of the different characteristics by which people can identify others.

The point with police profiling is it enables the classification of the individuals (through a range of characteristics including physical, ethnic or social) to be more readily disseminated to those who need to know and being the police, from the nature of police work, most likely to either intercept or apprehend a criminal or criminal gang.
Hence, describing a person of “Lebanese parentage” as of “middle eastern appearance” is no more “racist” than describing someone who is 4 foot 6 inches tall (about 140cm) as “short” is “heightist”.

If the police use, as part of their classification of description “short person” should our 4 foot 6 inch, (vertically challenged) individual complain about “profiling”?

When someone thinks he should then maybe you can find some sense in Taimor Hazou’s whine. For that all it is, a whine, then they can come and try to convince me of the "terrors" and abuses of profiling.

Taimor “I find some of the comments extremely off putting and telling about some of the views held in public.”

You really do “need to grow a thicker skin and get over yourself a little.”, particularly if you want to make public comments.
Simpky because someone disagrees with you does not make then a racist.
Posted by Col Rouge, Wednesday, 11 January 2006 4:10:34 AM
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Numbat

Thank you. I had come across that particular tenet of Islam on an Islamic website some years ago. I have never been able to retrace to that website and the discussion on the topic. You have confirmed something I have been unable to reference. I would be delighted if you could possibly supply any such infomation you have.

Something I have found in my readings of Islam is that while many of the teachings are concerned about the protection of the religion of Islam itself often at some point intrepretation has been placed on those teachings that extends their operation to outside of the religion. The classic case is that of the teachings with regard to the controversial tenet of Innovations. That is the basis of my interest. I would like to discover the original probable intent of the tenet and how it may have possibly been (mis)intrepreted.
Posted by keith, Wednesday, 11 January 2006 5:19:42 AM
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