What is the problem with Carr’s description of “Lebanese Gangs”? Are we now denying the existence of Lebanese gangs?

What about drunken white youths? A man of aboriginal appearance? A man of Mediterranean appearance? People of Caucasian appearance? Asian men?

All of these descriptions are regularly used in police bulletins so that we have some idea who to look out for. Some would even say that this is one of the advantages of diversity – it’s easier than searching a sea of white faces.

Well

Allah forbid it!! I have to agree with Leigh.

"Middle Eastern appearance" (ie Lebanese) is useful shorthand for Public Enemy No.1.

Forgive the racism its amply justified.

When those of Middle Eatern appearance finally stop their young blood's:

- initiation by pack rape, and

- self expression by plotting terrorist bombings.

they will again be embraced by the Australian community.

Until then ASIO, the AFP and State Police are getting large budget increases precisely to handle the "Middle Eastern" problem.

Its up to the "Middle Eastern" community, in our midst, to get their house in order before their protests receive any credibility.

The ridiculous thing about "Middle-Eastern Appearance" is that I would fit the descriptor - and I can't riot to save my life. I have Anglo-Celtic heritage yet have black hair, brown eyes and rather thick lips. A friend of friend when he first met me assumed I was Jewish. Unless I spoke to you, you wouldn't really have much of an idea of where I come from. I do like Lebanese food so that might incriminate me.

It's this idiotic stereotyping (sorry, profiling) that's led to Indian-Americans, of all people, being attacked after 9/11 in the US, that's contributed to the harassment and violence inflicted upon Muslims in this country - even those who haven't committed a crime in their lives and that's contributed to attacks on Muslim women (yeah, like they were burning down Cronulla).

Intelligent policing is not based caricature but accurate information. Maybe the police need to get their house in order as someone condescendingly told the "Middle-Eastern Community".

plantagenet,

ignorance and bigotry should rank higher on any public enemy ranking than the middle east, which last time I checked included: Algeria, Bahrain, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Omar, Palestine (?), Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, Turkey, UAE and Yemen.

Certainly an area full of serious problems, but hardly an homegenous part of the world or in anyway useful as an accurate or truthful short hand when describing people who should simply be regarded as Australian.

Taimor: What a lot of garbage, of course if I belonged to such a cowardly useless group,like those Lebanese criminals (note not all Lebanese but only the criminal element) I would not like to be described in that manner either.
We the public, be we Aboriginal, Celtic, Negroid or Asian NEED! to know just who the perpetraters of mindless, thuggish actions are.
Of course they could always wear a burka, like their valued womenfolk. numbat

Here is another 'person of Middle Eastern' descent trying to dictate how Australian media and law use language.
Do people of 'Middle Eastern' descent realise how fed up Australians are with all this stupid political correctness?
We are a people who call a spade a bloody shovel, I would suggest those who refuse to live by our laws or our way of life, find another place to complain about.
Try a Middle Eastern country. You would be happier there.

A "valuable step in breaking down tensions" would be for the Lebanese to take their Australian-hating behaviour far, far away, preferably to an Islamic country where there are few women uncovered to offend them. Failing that, Lebanon will do. I didn't ask my government to bring this riffraff in and they didn't ask me whether I approved when they did. I don't, and would vote accordingly if both sides weren't as bad as each other.

When the Lebanese gangs are dismantled we can then start on the Pacific Islander ones. These are less scarey than the Lebanese ones only because there are fewer of them, but individually Islanders (and their Maori cousins) can be pretty vicious (and they are usually hefty characters). Lebanese of course only attack when the odds are 5-6 to one. This why they are called the "Lions of Lebanon" (or did they mean "loins"?) because male lions attack in groups and get the lionesses to do most of the work.

Morris Iemma is about to get the arse because of his cowardice in not dealing with the, youths of M... oh bother... Lebanese Muslim youth gangs.

Tell me Taimor have you ever condemned the violence exhibited by this rather exclusive little group in our midst... in any terms. Especially any that we all can clearly identify the culprits.

Your post is blaming everyone else for the violence in Sydney.

Lets see you get fair dinkum and include this bunch of cherished little Lebanese Muslim angels in your criticism before you spout any more of your anti-Australian rubbish.

Global Nomad and (to a lesser extent) DavidJS

Idealism and political correctness don't work in the end.

The public have a right to know police statistics which indicate which groups rape, pillage and terrorize people out of all proportion to their numbers.

Stats are not perfect though. Woman rightly fear reporting pack rape because they know that there always may be a carload of thugs on the way who remember who spoke to the cops.

We also also need to know which ethnic groups are committing the highest level of crimes per capita because we (the public), at last, should be given a say in immigration ie. do we have the right to say "no more Lebanese" or is this the right and privilege of Canberra (which has a very small Muslim population).

Now you two will consider this a bit new and progressive but you have to look to the future guys. Past policing in Sydney that has shied away from confronting ethnic sensitivities (however thug driven) has lead to a self sustaining gang culture amongst Lebanese youth. The gangs live by force and are "impressed" with the greater force of the police rather than faint hearted PC chatting.

So, I think people should not be distracted by sloppy arguments that suggest that gang violence is the fault of society. We should keep our eye on the ball, that is, track (and profile) the Lebanese gangs of Sydney and keep them under control.

Taimor, removing racial profiling might help but I doubt it, I suspect that it would be seen as yet another coverup.

What I do think would help break down tensions is for community leaders from the various communities with ethnic/religious ties to the gang members and their families to spend some time talking about what they are doing to stop the gangs and what appears to be an ongoing campaign of racially and culturally inspired violence.

Instead we have been treated to s string of writers being very dismissive of the gang activities. The descriptions of gang activities are akin to having John Stone describing the Cronulla riots as "an alleged scuffle" (I don't think he has done so).

I am very opposed to seeing innocent muslims denigrated because of the actions of a small proportion of people with muslim backgrounds. The extrordinary lengths some authors have gone to downplay and put spin on the actions of these gangs has me very concerned. There does not appear to be any obvious attempt to address the issue head on, rather repeated calls for changes to the way Australian society deals with the issues. Some of those calls have merit but they will achieve nothing if the underlying issues are not addressed.

Why am I not seeing articles written by those in the muslim/middle eastern communities unreservedly condemming the actions of these gangs and proposing meas to halt their activities?

R0bert

Blatant racisms and lies are contained in your propaganda.

‘The race riots in Sydney were not a surprise; nor were they predictable and avoidable.’

There was only one riot.
Only people with anti-Australian attitudes see any racism.

Why do you think something that was not predictable and avoidable would not be a surprise?
Any explanation that targets only one group of Australians will paint you racist.

‘While not wanting to oversimplify … including the role of politicians, public commentators and the media…in the lead-up to the recent sickening scenes,…’

That’s a racist statement. It insinuates blame while targeting only one racial group.

‘…that atmosphere has led to violence against innocent citizens.’

That statement ignores and excuses the violence perpetrated by the Lebanese Muslim youth gangs.
This is the type of rhetoric you accuse the racists of indulging. ie targeting a group because of their race. That makes you racist.
‘ …is the inability of the general public to differentiate between various races and cultures…’
You think Australians stupid?
‘… undermining the ability of police to conduct investigations efficiently.’
Bob Carr did this to police in relation to the violence perpetrated by the Lebanese Muslim youths.

‘…bringing with it a culture of fear and hate targeting the city's Arab and Muslim communities’

No-one hates Arabs nor Muslims. The behaviour of the Lebanese Muslim youth gangs that have been perpetrating racial rapes and racial violence in our community is resented. You ignore this and instead erroneously and racially target the Australian community. That is racist.

‘Clearly, prejudice and xenophobia have played a substantial role in the racially motivated violence of recent days.’

Wrong and racist. Prejudice and xenophobia were involved in the violence of the last FIFTEEN YEARS. You ignore the facts. That indicates you tacitly but obviously blame only Australians and excuse the Lebanese Muslim youth gangs.

Carr and Iemma should have confronted your brand of ugly racism years ago.

I've lost patience with all the pretence being generated by you sympathetic with the violent Lebanese Muslim youth gangs.

Yes,remove the racial profiling and they can subvert the truth and the problem will continue to fester.Morris iemma will be put under incredible pressure to buckle to their demands.How can the general public be protected from criminals if there is no accurate discription?Notice how they are also pushing for a Bill of Rights and Religious Antivilification laws of Victoria which will further subvert the truth.

The Muslim community are in a permanent state of denial.If they put the reverse pressure on Morris Iemma,then he will put the criminals in gaol and the good name of ordinary law abiding Muslims will be preserved.

The problem is that the criminal thugs are so violent and powerful that they even have their own communities terrorised.This is why we have this impasse of denial and cover up.

The alarm bells should be ringing in Canberra because Morris Iemma hasn't got the courage or political disposition to confront the problem.

The nutter white supremacists see an opportunity for power and this lawless city of Sydney has become a festering sore of racial unrest all because of a politically correct Labor Govt.

Gangs are gangs. There are white drunken thug gangs, and there are Lebanese thug gangs. Tell it as it is!

Leigh and Viking. Thank you for your down to earth and honest posts.

Cheers
Kay

Taimor, why is it that some people of Middle Eastern appearance have their own policy of racial profiling? Didn't ME types select 'white anglo' women to rape? Weren't the women asked before they were pack raped: "Are you Australian?" Why didn't the gang rapists select victims wearing the burqa? Why didn't the gang rapists tour Chinatown to select a victim? And didn't they say to the victims: "You're gonna cop it Leb style"?

It seems to me that if ME types want to wear T-shirts with 'Lebs rule' and have the same slogan adorning their cars and have a tattoo on their body featuring a cedar tree, they want to be identified as ME types plain and simple. So issuing a description with the words 'of Middle Eastern appearance' shouldn't upset them at all. I think they would revel in that fact.

Until you drop that anodyne banner 'Australian Arabic Council' which is a tacit way of boasting about your 'Arabness' you will always feel divorced from Australia and Australians. Why not boast about your Australianness? Do you see any 'Australian Convict Council' or similar organisations?

Get real Hazou. Your argument is a parlous perversion of racial profiling.

As a citizen you should be supporting the description of offenders as Caucasian, Asian, Black, White or Brindle.

As a taxpayer you should be supporting descriptions which will assist apprehension, prosecution and removal of criminals from society.

As a commentator, you fall back on the race card, as opposed to embracing the removal of criminals from society by accurate description.

Finally, one small victory over PC, & a little step against multiculturalism.
I am a great believer in coffee colored people [by the score], but I hate this separatist philosophy.
Hasbeen

Just another effort on the part of the multicultural lobby to sweep ethnic violence under the carpet. Ignoring the problem won't make it go away, thats just rubbish.

A bit of PC/islamist "profiling propaganda" on the Greeks and Italians?

"Sources within the Lebanese community said three busloads of young men from Melbourne - Lebanese, Serbians, Italians and Greeks - and more than 30 carloads were expected to arrive in Sydney today and tomorrow."

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17581075-2,00.html

Greeks and Italians and any dark skinned people need to do anything they can to distance their communitys from islam. The Greek and Italian councils should sue for vilification of their communtiy lol.

Sorry the idea is offensive to me , multiculturism we are told is Australias future , and indeed reminded of the right some have to maintain cultures not born in Australia.
If however we name some from that culture in exactly the same way we name our own people of interest to the police we are wrong?
Far from it!, some minority within a minority are racist, and some are criminal, some will never execpt that.
But it is true.

For goodness sake, we are all different so to pretend we all look the same and are the same is ridiculous. How can we say that we are accepting of difference when we are so hostile towards it and want to pretend that it doesn't exist.

What we need to do is to take the focus away from race by making any discrimination that is based on malice and spite against the law as opposed to discrimination having to be based on race being against the law. It shouldn't matter who you are, everybody should be protected by the law.

There are so many mixtures of race now that the Discrimination act is no longer working because you cant prove that it was because of your race because you are Australian!

What we need to do is let the children run the country, for sure they will make better choices and do a better job.

I have decided to reply to some of the posts, but am reluctant to engage in protracted debate. some of the posts are more emotive and argumentative than discussion and debate!

My only comment to (perhaps illustrate and illucidate) is that racial profiling has been shown to be defunct and a bad from of policing. This research has been done on numerous occaisions for a number of decades both here and internationally. Why can we not then expect our police forces to have current police techniques and policy.

Most of the comments focus on the 'known' gulit of Arabs, Lebanese and Middle Eastern Australians as justification for the practice. There is little reflection on how the policy works, or not, or its impact on society. Both issues I try to address.

In the end, Greeks, Maltese, Italians, and even Anglo's can be of 'Middle Eastern' Appearnace. I does not help policing. The reality is that physical descriptors, that describe a persons, hieght, skin, eye and hair color are far more effective in combating crime and achieving convictions.

Race refers to ones genetically transmitted physical characteristics (thx dictionary.com). Physical characteristics are used to identify offenders. A racial profile then allows a convenient method of describing an individuals physical profile.

Taimorh, pull your head out.

The only thing that will break down tensions in any Western Country would be the application of “TRUTH’ and if the “TRUTH” is far too great for some to absorb then we are doomed. One of the more likely imperialist movements is not The Anglo sphere, But the other that has been on a Colonizing spree for more than 1200 years, Correlating that philosophical corrupt to what our Elitisphere worship, Altruism and existentialism as their methodology to change Humane psychology is only a Pacifistic way the Aggressors previously Murdered and pillaged to take what they wanted. In simple word it is Criminal Intent, and Truth be known here on to everyone.

http://reactor-core.org/islamic-censorship.html

We have the Epistemology on civilizations side, Not Looters Ideology whether Islamic or Exestentialis.

Dear Taimor
I'm not sure exactly how far you want your 'no racial profiling' to go, but you should remember that racial profiling such as 'of caucasian (or which ever) appearance' is usually reported for crimes where there have been NO arrest, and forms the legitimate description of perpetrators and assists the public in identifying particular suspicious behavior.

I read in the papers yesterday of one incident involving 3 perpetrators, One was of caucasian, another of Asian, and another of Middle eastern appearance ALL IN THE ONE report for crying out loud.

Now that is CRUCIAL in helping the public locate a small group of men who happen to fit that racial profile and are together.

If it so happens that a higher percentage of crimes are committed by those of 'middle eastern appearance' in particular areas like South West Sydney, then its just a fact of life, as it would be for a LOWER percentage.

I'm sorry, our patience has already long expired for those using the 'victim' mentality to defend the criminal element of their ethnic group. I don't expect reporters to neglect the racial aspect in crime stories, in fact I ABSOLUTELY expect it, knowing full well many will be 'of caucasian' appearance. I don't feel my 'group' is under attack and neither should you about yours. They are simply relevant facts about criminals.

Taimor, let me ask you this. Do you expect to be treated differently by emergency services based on your religion ? If you do, then I recommend some 'loyalty' classes :) In fact, I would recommend that oaths are done ONLY on the Bible or.. as a sworn oath without any religious text. Never the Quran. I would take great exception to the Quran or Islamic prayers ever being used in our parliament or local councils. This is Australia, and we have a dominant culture, and it must be respected. Just as we would be expected to do the same in another country. All these things must be explained to would be migrants BEFORE they come here. They either accept or don't come.

In my opinion it is ridiculous to want to try to stop identifying people by their appearance and race as that is the easiest way to identify and locate them.

I sometimes worry whether there are those out there that want to camouflage criminals and terrorists in order to protect them becasue they feel sorry for them as they also see them as victims. The more information that the public have, the easier it is to identify the culprits - we need to protect the innocent.

Already on passport photo’s you are not allowed to smile, best if we all look like terrorists that way we don’t discriminate against the terrorists. It is ridiculous.

My daughter, when aged (8), wrote a report at school, her teacher came and showed it to me because she was so proud of my daughter. Her message was:

“We need to focus on the similarities between people, not the differences, because then there could be peace in the world”

That doesn’t mean that we should pretend that there are no differences, just that if we focused on the similarities we would find that the majority of people want the same thing and that is a safe, happy and caring place to live and to bring up their children.

That should be our goal and focus and anybody who threatens it, needs to be dealt with regardless of who they are or where they were born.

I am convinced that young children today are smarter than the adults and have less prejudices and we should be listening to them.

Jolanda, I suspect that it is more about not wanting their communities to be tarred with brush that should be applied to the criminals rather than a specific agenda of protecting criminals. What disturbs me most about a number of these recent articles is the deliberate downplaying of the activities of ethnic gangs (whilst bagging the largely white mob and that one night of bad behaviour).

I'm trying to work out why this is so, the main possibilities seem to be
- the authors have no real problem with the behaviour of the gangs.
- the authors don't believe the reported behaviour of the gangs.
- the authors don't see any tie between the gangs and the muslim/middle eastern communities nor do they see any tie between cultural/religious teaching that emphasises modesty (for women) and attacks on women who dress in what is considered to be an immodest manner. The gangs members have been raised in Australia and are probably not serious muslims so are not relevant to the muslim/middle eastern community. No reason to excuse downplay their actions if this was the case so I don't take it seriously.
- loyalty to their own groups is placed ahead of loyalty to the broader community. Defend your own regardless of right or wrong.
- the authors are worried that by addressing the issues honestly they will further harm their communities.

I hope that it is the latter.

Whatever the case it is rather disturbing that we have had a string of authors making such an effort to downplay the actions of these gangs.

R0bert

There have been 15 published articles on OLO on this topic. Fourteen blame Australia, Australian and the way Australians do things, all condemn the Cronulla Riot, (Although everyone of them say RIOTS), most say were racist and all downplay the actions the...well you know who. (Lets not upset Irfan, etc).

The other article was by David Flint doing whatever it is he does.

I guess we're being told what to think by a pc magazine pushing the mc line... or maybe that's just a case of skewed balance in the media.

At least the mainstream media aren't doing that...they're simply ignoring everybody's concerns.

And talkback...well I hear everyman's opinion everyday in nearly every conversation I have and I never have to listen to talkback radio... so I don't know what's on talkback but I do know what people are saying in my community.
(Which by the way is very very multicultural yet mirrors most on this forum.)

Robert here is what I feel.

- Some adults don’t see the behaviour as being, that bad, or for that matter worse than others so they play it down – just like in school. They like to think of it as “boys being boys”.
- Some believe that the behaviour of thugs from certain groups is over-reported as opposed to others. They believe that they are being targeted. It would be interesting to know if that is the case?
- Some blame the western culture for what is happening to their boys and they are fiercely protecting their girls.
- Those of Lebanese background are very protective of their own, many have lived hard lives and they have seen a lot of bad in people and they believe that they have to stick together to be safe.
- Some are worried that addressing the issues might mean that Muslims might be expected to relax their religion and culture and to assimilate and that means adapting to the Western way and they do not want to do that because they feel the Western way is corrupted and against their religion.

The one thing that all people have in common is the culture of justifying thier position and of covering up and denying. The other thing humans have in common is the ease in which people can turn a blind eye.

I think that empathy is something that is missing in society and empathy, just like everything else - needs to be developed. People learn by example!.

While were all getting excited about Lebanese gangs (that was sooooo unPC of me, how naughty!) we've seen Dubbo locked down more recently because of violence on the part of Aboriginal youths (notice I said Aboriginal and not people of pre-1788 Australian appearance). The Macquarie Fields riots last year occurred thanks to criminals who have no connection to land formerly occupied by the Phoenicians. I also recall that Janine Balding and Anita Cobby were victims of thugs unfamiliar with Beirut and its attractions.

What have these various crimes have in common? They've all been committed by young men. Young men, who for whatever reason, don't give a stuff about what talkback radio callers and anyone else on the moral high ground thinks of them. This is the fundamental problem. Gang rapists are not perusing this website in order to see the errors of their ways from people posting in.

All this talk about racial profiling and tough policing is all well and good but the police are there to act after the crime has been committed. What do we do to prevent or at least minimise the risk of violence breaking out in the first place? I await suggestions from the many respondents who obviously have all the answers.

Dubbo and 100 other Australian country towns are part of the problem.
They too see PC take the place of truth.
However the comunity in time will react to both the Lebanese Muslim gangs , and our own problems.
Politicians refuse to face the truth at their own peril.
Now donnt go down the leftist path of wanting jobs for people who do not want to work as an answer.
Keep the debate on track its a law and order issue.
And an issue of some who want to distroy our culture not be part of it

Taimor, Yes, clearly studies show that labelling of any kind creates discrimination. In some instances this discrimination may be detrimental E.g. seeing someone as their disorder rather then being a person. However, I would suggest that not all discrimination is harmful. Why is it wrong to be able to discriminate between a person of Lebanese descent and one of English descent? Would an Australian Aborigine wish their aboriginality to be ignored - I suggest not. Most people are proud of their heritage and wish to have it acknowledged. People self-label, among other reasons, as a matter of pride and of holding onto identity. Changing the racial profiling policy will not alter self-labelling, therefore this discriminaton will continue....as it should.

I feel that natural discrimination is being greatly confused with racism.

Coraliz

Coraliz, thank you for some constructive input. I understand the point you make, but unfortunately the evidence does not bear this out. While it may feel natural to categorize by race, the reality is id does not work! For example, there was one comment that took offence, as Aussies not being able to distinguish between races. The reality is evidence shows this to be true. First, Arabs are Caucasian. Second, people can NOT distinguish between races, evidence has continually proven this for example. If a media alert suggests that a person of ME appearance committed a crime and police want information. The public tends to translate this into 'guilt by association'. If for instance, the perpetrator was a large muscular, olive skinned, man of 6ft, wearing, bikey paraphernalia; the public has difficulty in distinguishing this from a 'hooked nose man with dark, skin, long beard and wearing Arab dress. The reality is people rely on stereotypes to inform their decisions. So the police get a lot of phone calls leading on goose chases.
My argument is that this then translated into attacks in Cronulla of anybody of ME appearance including women in hijab. This was validated by the use of the term, even if meant attacking women in hijab, who common sense would dictate had nothing to do with the attacks on the life guards.
Finally, I find some of the comments extremely off putting and telling about some of the views held in public. I am an Aussie Arab and proud of it (on both sides). My article does not attack Australians or Australian values (in fact, I find it quite bizarre that some people have superficially translated it as such). It’s an opinion piece that raises some serious alternative views about social politics & public policy. Why is it then translated into defensive responses about rejecting Australia. It is a confident and public discourse on some real issues as they pertain to contemporary Australia. I think these comments say more about the 'rejection, isolation, and finger pointing' of Arab Aussies than they do about how Arabs-Australian feel themselves.

Taimor

While you now claim your article was exclusively dealing with racial profiling it contained blatant anti Australian propaganda. Your article also dealt with, and unreasonably so, what you saw as an issue of racial violence in Sydney. You apportioned blame for the Cronulla riot only to racist Anglo Australians. You lacked balance and only once looked at the racial profilling by the Lebanese Muslim youth gangs and their outrageous racial intolerance and criminality. You blamed racial profiling for that disgrace.

By blaming the police, government and generally law abiding citizens for the violence in Cronulla, you are in denial about the issues of Lebanese Muslim youth gang violence.

When you say things like:

‘Clearly, prejudice and xenophobia have played a substantial role in the racially motivated violence of recent days.’

It is fair to ask you why you did not mention the previous violence at Cronulla and in other parts of Sydney. You still avoid criticism of that and dismiss it's influence on the actions of people at Cronulla. In fact that can reasonably be construed as truely a head in the sand attitude.

Oh you might be right about Australians not being able to distinguish between races. It certainly applies to the NSW police. Reports are now appearing that after the violence in Cronulla and other suburbs in Sydney on that Sunday not one person of middle eastern appearance has been arrested.

Now why don't you ask the police why one bunch of rampaging hooligans gets arrested and charged but another group who also went on a rampage doesn't? That as a proud Australian should concern you more for it tears at and renders the very fabric of our proud heritages of egalitarianism and of a fair go. But then again so too does your argument...

I have posted a similar but longer version in the other forum. Moslems are allowed to and are encouraged to lie to all unbelievers.
The term for this 'dissimulation' is 'Takiya' or al-Takiya'
So how can we believe anything you moslems may write in this forum when you are allowed to use deceit.
I will add that I do not hate nor am I at war with pagan islam - but!
Quote: :We declare ourselves to be clear of you, and enmity and hatred have appeared between us and you forever until you believe in allah alone (60:2-4)" end of a very hatefilled miserable quote from the religion of peace. numbat

Profiling- from a range of definitions this is the most apt in this circumstance –
“recording a person's behaviour and analyzing psychological characteristics in order to predict or assess their ability in a certain sphere or to identify a particular group of people”.

Nothing “racist” about that.

Nothing “racist” when a doctor says “overweight smokers are more likely to have a stroke or diabetes”, it is just “profiling”.

So what is Taimor Hazou whining about?

If he thinks being called “of middle eastern appearance” is racist he needs to grow a thicker skin and get over himself a little.

Does “classification” mean racism?
No.
It never has done and never will do. All it does is facilitate communication about some of the different characteristics by which people can identify others.

The point with police profiling is it enables the classification of the individuals (through a range of characteristics including physical, ethnic or social) to be more readily disseminated to those who need to know and being the police, from the nature of police work, most likely to either intercept or apprehend a criminal or criminal gang.
Hence, describing a person of “Lebanese parentage” as of “middle eastern appearance” is no more “racist” than describing someone who is 4 foot 6 inches tall (about 140cm) as “short” is “heightist”.

If the police use, as part of their classification of description “short person” should our 4 foot 6 inch, (vertically challenged) individual complain about “profiling”?

When someone thinks he should then maybe you can find some sense in Taimor Hazou’s whine. For that all it is, a whine, then they can come and try to convince me of the "terrors" and abuses of profiling.

Taimor “I find some of the comments extremely off putting and telling about some of the views held in public.”

You really do “need to grow a thicker skin and get over yourself a little.”, particularly if you want to make public comments.
Simpky because someone disagrees with you does not make then a racist.

Numbat

Thank you. I had come across that particular tenet of Islam on an Islamic website some years ago. I have never been able to retrace to that website and the discussion on the topic. You have confirmed something I have been unable to reference. I would be delighted if you could possibly supply any such infomation you have.

Something I have found in my readings of Islam is that while many of the teachings are concerned about the protection of the religion of Islam itself often at some point intrepretation has been placed on those teachings that extends their operation to outside of the religion. The classic case is that of the teachings with regard to the controversial tenet of Innovations. That is the basis of my interest. I would like to discover the original probable intent of the tenet and how it may have possibly been (mis)intrepreted.

Keith: I found it on "The sword of militant islam" go to 'links' at the bottom of the page then click on - though all the links are very interesting -"the cult-like and beastly nature of islam" Further down is "prophet of doom website"
Then a hindu site which talks about islam, in upper case "SATYAMEVA JAYATE"
These sites are completely sickening, including a "nice?" picture of a pagan moslem cleric giving a boy a mouth to mouth kiss in front of the class.
Very few really know of the aims and teachings of this death loving, misygonistic, barbarous pagan religion. numbat

[Deleted for offensive language and flaming. Poster suspended for a week.]

Oh! Possum: You are totally ignorant about islam don't you read, don't you watch TV? If you are not ignorant then you must be totally stupid!
By the way you appear to be from the words and phrases you use an ignorant foul mouth git with little education.
What you think of me is of no consequence what so ever to me at all. numbat