I think Alan et.al some posters in this forum are over-reacting. Here's some food for thought.

1. The Christian West, flourishing from Europe, built the institutions and systems of government we in Australia (and indeed, many other countries) take for granted. We have the Westminster system of parliament which has (and continues) to serve us well - developed in Christian England, we have democracy from the Greeks (a Christian nation), we have architecture influenced by the Catholic and traditional Protestant churches etc.

2. Why isn't there much (if any) scrutiny of funding to certain organisations/groups which Christians (indeed, a number of faith-bearing people) may disagree with - abortion clinics, certain art projects (e.g. the "P? Christ"), gay and lesbian mardi gras festivals, Late-night phone-sex adverts etc.

.....

Oh, I forgot, of course - they're "acceptable" but Christianity isn't, gosh no - it must be "suspect", perhaps "hiding something" or dominated by nasty Right-wing people?? Hello, anyone see how the balance is weighed against Christianity? And what was Christianity's crime - someone please tell me!?!?

What too of the Christians who feel strongly against abortion? Oh, gosh, forgot again - they're nasty Right-wingers. No, they're not people who might just feel awful when hear that Australia loses a primary school of children every day, not people who might actually feel to reach out and help pregnant single mothers or abused women (Mercy Ministries, Genesis Pregnancy Support). No, Christian conservatives - according to Alan et.al, are trying to shove creationism and religion down people's throats - and they have now dared challenge the Almighty and Most Perfect Book of Evolution. Shame on those nasty Christians (*sarcasm of course*)

No, sadly, Alan and friends think that the Christian "right" (whatever that may be) has something to hide, isn't disclosing its funding or just wants everyone to stop thinking for themselves.

I look forward to Alan's next piece examining the funding of an abortion clinic or perhaps a late-night television phone-sex ad company.

Yungen... very well put and argued !

SLASHER (and Rob)

regarding our 'secret agenda' to stone adulterers etc.. (don't forget disobedient children or people planting two kinds of crop in the one field)

You focused your attention on the wrong book.

DEUTERONOMY is the key. That book is in the form of a treaty (Suzereign/Vassal) where the responsibilities and obligations of both sides are outlined.

<<See, I have taught you decrees and laws as the LORD my God commanded me, so that you may follow them in the land you are entering to take possession of it.>>

The phrase 'in the land' is repeated many times and is strongly suggestive that the many decrees etc, (apart from the 10 Commandments) were more related to the social/political life of Israel in the context of the LAND.

I will concede that the rules/decrees are those of a 'Theocracy' which Israel WAS at that time. They are harsh, but just.

You cannot take the decrees of Theocratic Israel and claim that we 'right wing bible bashing pulpit pounding hyper fundamentalists'
(who in my case wants a 'peoples bank' and State control of Corrections and Telstra) are intending to 'impose' them or that we even recognize those decrees as binding on modern social/political life.

To suggest such is also to totally neglect the fulfillment of the Old covenant in Christ, and the direction set by Him for humanity, which is only a theocracy of the individual heart.

69% of Australians hold a belief in God, and in a Christian tradition of some kind. The idea that such a big majority can have no 'faith' based input to the running of this country is to put it mildly, ludicrous, shameful,undemocratic and tantamount to facism/nazism/communism.

WHO ! decided that the only members of a democracy who can shape its social and cultural flavor are those who believe that there is nothing to believe in ? Not only do we reject that, we reject it to the uttermost.

I hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas break. I did. Managed to read through a PD James, an Iain Banks and finished off “Baby, I don’t Care” that Robert Mitchum; he makes Russell Crowe look like a pussycat. Of course I have no intention of exhorting others to read the same literature – that would be pushing my beliefs down other people’s throats. Which brings me to the topic;

Fundamental Christians sure do make a lot of noise. Which would be tolerable except they have an agenda – a political agenda as Alan Matheson so blithely points out. Given the variety of interpretations of the bible, let alone the multitude of religions throughout our little world, it is dangerous for one religious group to gain political power. And that is what the F.C. wants.

Ironic then, the amount of noise these same Christians make about Muslims. You’ve heard it all before – how Islam is all about world domination and evil etc.

Yet world domination is exactly what the Christian Right (or Christian Fundamentalist if you prefer) is about. Have taken over in the USA and would like to do so here.

Interesting to note that of all the posters to OLO the noisiest, and most belligerent are the C.R..

Not too low to sink to bullying if they think it will win an argument.

And these are the same people who make the most vilifying remarks about Muslims. On the same coin, other side, not a single Muslim poster to this forum has ever subjected me to personal abuse. Sure Irfan has gotten a little tetchy – with good reason given the vitriol that pours forth from both the C.R. and the anti-anything that isn’t Anglo Aussie brigade.

What does it all mean? That democracy requires constant vigilance. And to always check a political group’s background before voting eg, Family First – sounds all warm and fuzzy but is Christian dominated.

Democracy: freedom of speech, freedom of religion and freedom from religion. Our way of life is under threat – not from immigration but from within our own culture.

The CR and Aussie polys are just a new version of hansenism. No caring Christian would be a member so that lives you with the hate filled or the down right corrupt. They hide behind slick marketing but eventually they revealed themselves for what they are and Christian version of the Taliban and no more.

The polys will play will dance with anyone, if they think it will get them votes that’s why most Aussies have little or no respect for them. You have to ask yourself why the C.R. are so keen on controlling other people lives. Why don't they go play with some snakes instead.

Another point I'd like a C.R to point out the family values they are always on about in the bible?

Mark 7.10 maybe ? you know JC says kids should be killed if they don't follow the rules. Or is that one of the ones you guys ignore unless your in power?

Why don't they bring some form of religious education back into school? I don't mean Sunday School type instruction, I mean teaching children about religion, all religion, what each believes and stands for. If religion was taught objectively at school then the ID view could be espoused there. Not as an alternative to evolution but as a religious belief of some Christians.

Religion and education are two different things. You've only to look at the problems in the Arab world to see the dangers of mixing the two.