Hey Alan, good to see you used an independent historical source…. “WORLD Mission Statement: To report, interpret, and illustrate the news in a timely, accurate, enjoyable, and arresting fashion from a perspective committed to the Bible as the inerrant Word of God.”

The article is a joke. Question: “What were some of the "Dark Ages" innovations that show the folly of considering Greek and Roman culture the apex of civilization until recent times?”

Answer: How about the perfection and widespread use of waterwheels, windmills, and pumps, invention of the compass, stirrups, crossbow, canons, effective horse harnesses, eyeglasses, clocks, chimneys, violins, double-entry bookkeeping, and insurance? This list doesn't begin to do justice to this era that historians of science now refer to as an age of remarkable innovation and discovery."

To start, the Dark Ages where from 476-1000AD.

Note: ”remarkable innovation & discovery”. The compass, stirrup and crossbow came from China or Japan and were used prior to the dark ages. No Innovation and discovering that someone else is using it doesn’t really count.

Eyeglasses invented no sooner than 1280AD. Clocks (or measuring time) have been developing for thousands of years. The crucial element the “escapement” which was key to accurate time keeping developed about 1250AD. Violins came to form it is today in the 15th to 16th Century. Windmills while in existence from 7th Century and were developed from the 12th Century. Cannon came from China first documented in the 1100’s AD. Insurance Hah! Check out the Code of Hammurabi 1750 BC.

I should fess up though with a statement I made earlier re: flat earth. I was way out of date on that one. The flat earth concept was believed (or supported by religious types) till about the 12th Century when the works of Ptolemy were translated. So, the quotes from the bible I mentioned earlier were used to prescribe a flat earth in the dark ages. Galileo & Copernicus were persecuted for saying the earth was not fixed in the heavens.

Also check out Petrarch who first coined the phrase of “Dark Ages”. When? In the 1330’s.

Like Kephren I'm not taking a stand. But I'm also a stickler for facts.
1. Most people seem to have the idea that Evolutionism is accepted unwaveringly at tertiary level. It's not. Darwinism - even when it was originally taught to us at school - did not have all the answers. It has lost a lot of credence in the past 20 - 30 years. Remember this is Australia and not America - their "colleges" work on different levels to our Uni's.
2.The "Democracy" that is so often cited as our own system was evolved by a small and elite cadre of wealthy , influential white men. No-one else was able either to vote or to enter into discussions in Forum.
3. The "Westminster" system upon which Australian Government is based came about only after quite a few people - including kings and queens - had lost their heads. It came into being AFTER the seperation of Church and State.
p.s.DB, if the apostrophe is inserted in the correct place you will see from which name Jeshua is a direct translation

TELEVISION NEWS REPORT FROM THE FRONTLINES IN THE LAND OF ISRAEL

News Anchor “Zur”: We go to our reporter at the scene of the massacre of the Midianites. Jusitha are you there.

News Reporter Jusitha: Yes Zur I can hear you. I’m standing here in front of a Midianite village where the triumphant armies of the Israelites has just slaughtered every man they could find. Yes it’s complete genocide on a biblical scale.

Zur: Good to hear that Jusitha. Have you spoken to any of our armed forces?

Jusitha: Yes, I actually have a Captain of the Israelite army here, Captain Isaac. Captain Isaac could you give us an update on how things went here.

Captain Isaac: Well as you know Jusitha, acting on instructions from God to Moses we are here to continue the complete annihilation of the Midianites. This is only a small part of the campaign we have many more forces engaging Midianites throughout the area.

Jusitha: So things are finishing up here?

Captain Isaac: Not quite yet, we killed all the men but it has come down the line that all the women that have done the dirty have to be killed as well.

Jusitha: So these evil women have been fighting alongside the men.

Captain Isaac: No we’re just going to kill them. And all the young boys and babies.

Jusitha: So who’s left than?

Captain Isaac: Oh the female virgins of course. You have to get something out of this apart from just sacking the village.

Jusitha: And what will you be doing with these virgins?

Captain Isaac: We will be raping them of course. We have to shave their heads first though. Yes, from instructions past down from Moses to appease God we need to kill all the men, women and male children and keep the virgin women & girls for ourselves.

Jusitha: You have to keep God happy.

Captain Isaac: You’re right there.

Jusitha: Well thank God he is on our side. Back to you Zur.

END TRANSITION

How different things would be if there was TV.

Sergei, you disgust me.

Everyone knows there are only two types of people: fundamental Christians and atheists. Anyone who resists being dragged back to the Bronze Age in order to spare me from the burden of free thought is clearly the latter.

Secularists like you pretend that the bible is untrue simply because it was written hundreds or thousands of years after the events it documents, in a dead language which was then dragged through centuries of translation, interpretation, political exploitation and editing, before the tattered and apocryphal remains were savaged by King James I to create a tool for manipulating his subjects.

Pathetic.

The "scene" you describe isn't remotely true. The only true parts of the Good Book are the ones that tally with my ingrained prejudice, such as the persecution of homosexuals - regardless of their worth and contribution as human beings - and forcing barely-functional drug addicts to bear children who can look forward to a brutal but mercifully short life of violence and petty crime.

Luckily, your soul might still be saved through Intelligent Prayer (IP): put your fingers in your ears, shut your eyes tight, and repeat "I can't hear you! I can't hear you!".

Eventually, someone will come along and tell you how right you are, how wrong everyone else is, and ask you to buy their book or vote for them. You must believe this person absolutely. Questioning them will only put your soul in further peril.

Sergei, I'd like to congratulate you on the best post I have seen this year on OLO! If it were up to me, then Graham would award you with a case of Seppelts fine wines :)

No doubt some will froth at the mouth or fume from the ears, but it should get everyone who believes in so called holy books, really thinking about what they truly believe in. As they say, reality does not got away, when we close our eyes and wish it would.

Once again congratulations....

The above attitudes by atheists show their mocking of considered sourses indicates their bias. It's just that atheists cannot be honest. Because illinformed people in the past misused sourse information, doesn't mean the original material is totally discredited.

Kephren,
Thanks for clarification and support of my earlier post Sunday, 1 January 2006 1:09:31 PM, regarding Jesus and his reading of the Mosaic law to those neglecting parents.

Alchemist,
I must confess I've not read ancients scripts in their original language as you; I can only read and understand English. Though I've seen several original parchments, copper and leather scrolls dated in the years prior to Jesus. Sighting these doesn't make me an informed person, I trust people who translate them. I use translations of original scripts from reputable scholars.

What extinct languages have you studied?

I take advice from my good friend and Professor David Clines among the worlds leading Professors in extinct languages [nine in detail] at University of Sheffield and others of his ilk. I've about 220 translations of original scripts in my library, and accept them as reasonably reliable translations from ancient Chaldean, ancient Hebrew, classical Greek and Latin and compared with several sourse scripts in other languages.

I'm currently reading a two volume work edited by James Charlesworth on OT Pseudepigrapha. I've written a commentary on the book of "Job" from post-Babylonian period written in Paleo Hebrew so am updating; it's interesting to read collated stories of Job from the period of the Jewish testaments in Greek written 100BC-100 AD. Though English translators in the past were biased from their predisposition it doesn't mean they were dishonest with an agenda to deceive. It just meant their information tools were incomplete. Most English translators used the Septuagent because it was in Greek which assumes monotheism. But the original Paleo Hebrew was a monotheistic debate with gnostic counsellors.

I'm more interested in upholding a workable society than undermining those that have a sucessful community. I have found the Churches I'm involved in the best foundations for good community.