2.

Redneck, re teachers example, if you are referring to the Gavin Hopper and the Karen Ellis cases both occurred in Victoria so couldn't have been in Sydney - to be pedantic Sydney is in NSW ;-)
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/08/02/1091412047387.html?from=storylhs
http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story/0,20281,17308939-5001028,00.html

I consider that both teachers’ behaviours were reprehensible. The situations are similar but not equal - Hopper’s behaviour was more reprehensible (not because a male but over a longer period and got the student to have sex with his mates) and he deserved and got the longer sentence. But again, just because the boy "wanted it" is not an excuse for a female teacher to have sex with an underage male student. In my opinion, it seems the sentences were appropriate. One teacher (female) was imprisoned for 6 months for that teacher's criminal behaviours and the other teacher (male), whose behaviour was worse, was imprisoned for 5 years. If you changed the sexes around in these situations (female teacher deliberately seduces boy and he ends up being mentally traumatised while 15 yo girl declares intention to seduce male teacher and does so) the sentences would also be appropriate (5 years for the female and 6 months for the male).

Teachers have to realise that they can't have sex with their underage students (male OR female), in ANY circumstances INCLUDING where the student has asked for sex, and that the resultant penalty is likely to be imprisonment and if there are aggravating factors that they face lengthy imprisonment. Regarding the boy being hurt by the teacher's sentencing and alienated from his family etc etc I think that it's not the court's fault for sentencing the teacher it's the teacher’s fault for having sex with the boy – if she had shown some adult responsibility and said no he would have been saved all this suffering. An interesting view on this case is at http://www.mako.org.au/newsart212.html

So teachers - don't have sex with your students or you'll end up in jail. Keep that slutty Miss McKim in line.... ;-)

Post 3 re Judy example in 24 hours when I have some more posting allowances….

I am shocked by kalweb's denial of normal adolescent schoolgirl behaviour. In my time I have had intimate conversations with a number of women about their sexual histories, their schooldays, their teacher-crushes, albeit not in the formal situation of psychotherapy. But not once did any of these women disclose to me that they'd been sexually interfered with by paedophiles when they were children, yet each described being sexually aware, active and flirting in their teens.

Either Kay is correct and I'm living in a state of grossly ignorant denial as she suggests, and the women I have met have not been honest with me. Or kalweb is incorrect, or at least partly so. I don't know, but I doubt that all of those women I've spoken to were child victims of sexual assault.

Meanwhile, Pedant, about your suggestion for legislation, I have no problem with that, just so long as ALL legislation is fair and equal for ALL and the judiciary interprets and sentences ALL transgressors fairly and equally also.

Pedant

Thanks for post 1 - spot on stuff.

Maximus

I am not off the planet. I have professionally worked with young girls. I know how they get trained by paedophiles to be sexually provocative - and I know how they get trained to keep their mouths shut!

Here is an example: a young girl of 18 years had been a victim of "collective" (all family males) child sexual abuse (apart from her mother). I nursed her several times. She became a wrist cutter and had bulemic tendencies. On discharge from hospital, she returned home - despite very good counselling and support - " ... to save my 11 years old sister. They can do it to me instead".

Another 18 years old girl, a uni nursing student always became agitated at 3pm when we were on clinical placement. She was a fantastic student. I could not figure out why she carried on about meeting her father at 3pm. She finally told me. "I have to go home so that he can have sex with me, and not my little sister".

I can give you heaps more examples. At the particular university, in conjuction with the counselling service, we set up the first adult student victims of child sexual assault group.

You would be amazed at the things they told us - how they were trained by adult males to be provocative. It was just awful.

Having said that, I do not belie what you and the other male posters are saying. I just hope that you will open your eyes to an ravaging hidden problem in our society - one in six girls as victims of child sexual abuse is too much for this human unit.

One of my neices for example, is 13 years - sexually provocative - no abuse history - and proudly says that she wants to "f" 16 years old boys. She is shameful.

Cheers
Kay

Maximus and other males

I trust you can see the contrast in my above posting?

I donot think that you males are lying. I just think that you should think outside of the sqaure.

Cheers
Kay

Hi Kalweb

I was very interested in the cases that you submitted and I consider that predatory men who wish to seduce under age girls as a form of sport are utterly reprehensible. But I do not think that women seducing under age boys is anywhere near as big a deal. Have you ever treated an under age boy for psychological problems caused by female sexual abuse?

You also seem to be horrified about what I and other posters are saying, even though you agree that the examples that we are submitting are true.

Here is another one. My 18 year old girlfriend "Judy" had a 14 year old girlfriend "Sue" who was openly living with a 27 year old man named Peter. Peter's family strongly disapproved, but the girls family were ecstatic. The reason was that the girl was known to be sexually active anyway and she had been hanging around with boys who could only be described a mother's nightmare.

The girl's family were very poor and considered 27 year Peter to be a great catch for Sue. He had a permanent job, was known to be decent man, he was a social drinker, did not smoke or take drugs, and was from a wealthy family. Peter really did love the Sue and he eventually married her. Sue herself was very happy living with him.

In addition, both of them were living in a small country town where everybody knew what was going on. But nobody in town was offended nor demanded that the police press charges. This was because Peter was well liked in town and the townfolk apparently felt that the arrangement was good for both Sue and Peter.

I can not in all honesty regard under age sex, even with older people, as a moral absolute that must be automatically considered evil.

Redneck, I suspect one of the reasons that it is treated as a moral absolute is that policing becomes almost impossible if you don't. The fact that other societies have had people getting married much earlier makes the absolute idea look hollow. Our society has made a call (and revised it) on age of consent and I think the treatment is a pragmatic decision. I get kind of concerned about the mental health of adults who want to be in a sexual relationship with children anyway.

Kay, that 1 on 6 figure bugs me. The Queensland Abused Child Trust currently reports about 7% of all substantiated abuse and neglect is sexual. I've heard some very high figures for rates of sexual abuse before but not seen the detail of the relevant studies, what I have read is commentary by those concerned about them.
The 1 in 6 figure is reportedly based on an extremely broad definition of what constitutes sexual abuse. My understanding is that that the following might get included
- Under age sex (figure might be higher when this occurs) with another under age child
- A child feeling uncomfortable about sexual issues - sex ed etc
= Any exposure to Porn (deliberate or accidental, soft or hard etc)

Reasons for publishing an unrealisitically high figure
- Might help mum get custody in the divorce (unless someone actually thinks about who abuses kids)
- Some fanatics working in this field, maybe not dealing well with issues in their own families and it is easier for them to cope if the problem is really common.
- The fanatical end of the feminist movement is like most fanatics and will do and say almost anything to make the opposition look bad.
- Better funding for their organisation if the problem is really bad.

Have you seen the sources for the 1 in 6 figure? Any child abuse is sick and too much for this unit, if child sexual abuse is really running at 1 in 6 I'd be even more horrified.

R0bert