"Intolerant", Mr "Reason?"

Muslims believe that people who have sex outside of marriage should be stoned to death. I have got news for you, mate. I have had sex outside of marriage, and I do not feel too "tolerant" towards people who want to stone me to death. I do not want them in my country and I certainly do not want them living next door to me.

The fact that every Muslim country on this planet is a basket case speaks loads about their backward religious and social values. Bobbing up and down on a prayer mat waiting for Allah to solve all their problems for them is going to get them nowhere. What they need is a Renaisance of thought.

But they will never focus upon that, while ever they people like some of the posters here making excuses for them. Like the Israeli Prime Minister once said "You Australians will not wake up until they start walking into your restaurants with bombs strapped on them."

I hope one of them walks into your favourite restaurant, Mr "Reason", and wakes you up.

Fellow human
1. My point about Abraham is that rather than growing out of the narratives about Abraham as Judaism and Christianity did, Mohamed adopted him, I suspect without understanding his importance. Your comment that: “The koran defines muslims as the followers of Abraham in terms of endorcing the commandments” confirms that. It is very difficult, as we have seen in these pages to understand another religion from the outside. Mohamed envied the Jews possession of scripture and the Qu’ran was its answer to that lack among the Arab peoples. The emphasis on law in Islam indicates that they did not understand the idea of grace that centers around Abraham.

2.To argue that Allah and the Christian God are one and the same from simple analogues in language is fallacious. I am quite prepared to argue that the God that Christian fundamentalism believes in is not the God that I believe in because of fundamental theological differences. Just so Islam.

3. I pulled out my old copy of the Britannica and reread the early history of Islam. I suggest you take a look. Mohamed lead countless raids on other Arab tribes that can hardly have been defensive. The progress of Islam among the Arab peoples was extended by military means.

Hi Sells,

1. When I said God and Allah is one thing was not in the language sense but rather how God defines himself in the Qu’ran as God of Abraham, Moses & Jesus. There is only one God anyway in my belief or yours. I can’t claim to understand how the Trinity works.

2. “Mohamed envied the Jews” is flattening a deep issue. The Qu’ran is mainly concerned with spiritual context around the creation, prophet messages and stories. The Qu’ran criticism to the Jews was on usually within one of the following contexts:
- Excessive/strict implementation of the Judaism teachings, or
- Promote monotheism as exclusive to Jews.
- Intentional mis-interpretation of the Torah around interest (for example in the Qu’ran God said to have banned all interest, which according to the Jewish teachings only Jews to Jews was banned from dealing in interest).
- Manipulating the Sabbath law rather than purifying their intent (Qu’ran example of some putting the fishing nets on Friday then catch the fish on Friday).

3. My point was not in number of wars but rather this:
- Muslims were persecuted and killed for the first 13 years of Mohamed’s message.
- The permit to ‘defend yourself and do not transgress’ came when a war after war was forced upon Muslims (Including sanctioning them for 3 years of thirst and famine)
- In all early wars, Muslims were always outnumbered by 10 or 15 to 1. The Muslims at the time were the poor, women and widows.

Regards,

AK

For anyone wondering about how the cultural fabric/texture might be influenced by Islam, even MINORITY Islam, please note the following:

1/ Minority Muslim Mayor along with 'pc' councillors impose ban on ham sandwiches at council functions of Hume municipality, -community is outraged, but only when the issue becomes high profile in the media do they backflip and rescind the decision. The REASONable person asks "Why the heck did they not provide simply a table of halal food for the Muslims and not discriminate against the 78% of non muslims" ?

2/ Burial laws excemptions given to Muslims in Victoria.
3/ Stamp duty laws ammended to provide for 'Islamic' Loans.

The thinking person might be tempted to ask, 'Where could this lead' ?

The answer is here, from a town of mostly polish Catholics in the USA state of Michigan. A 30% muslim minority are using 'religous freedom' as their mantra for justifying ramming high doses of decibels into the ears of non muslims shouting "Mohammed is Gods messenger" 5 times a day.

The city is outraged, the nation is outraged, but do they stop ? nope. This is religous freedom I remind you... for what ? for whom ?
For a minority group to 'yell' its faith into 'infidel' ears, with the backing of the mayor (who you can all write to, as I have)

http://www.detnews.com/2004/metro/0404/26/a01-133933.htm

Mayors email=> tjankowski@hamtramckcity.com

The Muslim view

“This is a ground-breaking effort, and I hope it will set a precedent for other communities across the nation,” said Ibrahim Hooper, spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, a civil rights organization in Washington, D.C.

This is the true "Islam and the West".

No amount of academic double speak will persuade me that our social equilibrium is not under threat from Islam.

Ash... 'who' is hating who here ? :) Its the Muslims who sue us, ram noise into our ears...hmmmm I feel like some bloke on a camel has pillaged my back yard.

Ash, if we did start to 'hate' Muslims, I would 'kinda understand' :) be thankful "The Love of Christ constrains" (at least me)

Hey redneck “how’r ye doin’?”
Thanks for the hope. Show just how reprehensible your kind is, wishing the same as the bombers want. There is a difference between having an opinion and being militant about it. Denigration of another’s faith seems to be the main thrust of a lot of anti-Islam sentiment. Seems you practice what you parade against…. Thanks for providing your own hypocrisy! Makes sleeping easier knowing you may just strap on your own bomb and walk into some innocent Muslims business when you can’t take it any more!

Sells,
Fine. Mohammed raided other tribes outside of war. And what do we call the US invasions of Afghanistan, Iraq and so many other countries where resources are desired. If Iraq couldn’t beat Iran in 10 years of war, how is the US threatened by war?

And so the progress of the west differs how?

(PS – I’m atheist. Yes a nihilist you would say! Cheers. Would rather be damned for not believing that for believing and being a hypocrite *see redneck!)

I am doing just fine, “Mr Reason”. I asked you a question and I just knew you would dodge it. I love it when my people’s enemies behave exactly how I predict they will.

As for saying that “my kind” are reprehensible. How is it that you can prejudge and stereotype me but then claim that I can not do the same to my people's enemies?

But sure I denigrate Islam, it is a threat to our superior western culture and Islam has a lot worth denigrating. Islam is a total failure and every Muslim country is a basket case. How is it “reprehensible” to tell the truth?

I would thank you for displaying to all of our readers how ill equipped you finger waggers are to take on an informed opponent. Your entire post is simply bluster and sneery one liners. Come back and try to debate me when you can figure out an argument. Rotsa ruck.