Timkins

Xena has stated repeatedly that she is not as concerned about the abortion rate as are you. Therefore, not offering 'realistic' ways to decrease rate.

I also agree with Xena that criticism is not name calling nor flaming - it is, as she said, 'a difference of opinion'. And I have to agree that you do appear to be rather obsessed with this issue - this is an opinion based upon the subject matter of your posts. It is not intended as flaming but does beg the question of your extreme reaction to differing POV's. And 'extreme' isn't intended as flaming either. Trying to communicate with you is like walking on eggshells - and that's not intended as flaming either.

No one is saying that ALL men are responsible for women having to have abortions as a result of 'sowing their oats'. In your little diatribe of offences you omitted to include promiscuous men. That's all.

And 'women's choice' is not a mantra - it is our lives and our bodies, you can either walk with us or walk alone.

I cannot take hormonal contraception because of migraines - I have to rely upon condoms. At age 51 if I should fall pregnant I would definitely consider abortion given the potential for Down's and other age related syndromes. I suppose that you would deny me that and force me to term. Would you?

Of course Asian women are coming here for abortions - decent contraception is more difficult to obtain in Asia. They are coming here as a last resort. Australia has safer methods of abortions and long may it continue. That's right, I approve of abortion as a last resort after careful consideration.

You may not agree with me - that's OK. I most certainly do not agree with you about your concerns regarding the rate of abortion. Would be nice if we didn't have to have abortions but to subject it to the type of scrutiny you propose is nothing short of totalitarianism and therefore unacceptable.

PS Be interesting to see if I or Xena get 'flamed'.

Trinity,
Thankyou for your unsubstantiated maligning remarks about myself and my posts (eg “your extreme reaction to differing POV's”, “Trying to communicate with you is like walking on eggshells”

If someone has minimal knowledge of the subject matter, does not bother to research it much, presents POV’s but does not bother to substantiate them,(ie plucks POV's out of the air), presents no new evidence or data, relies on name calling and maligning inferences of other posters, (and in the case of Xena, once stooped so low as to make maligning comments regards my daughter on another forum, when she does not even know her), relies on tired old propaganda mantra’s, rarely reference anything, presents no suggestions on how to solve serious social issues, etc, etc, etc then I think they should just stay out of forums and let others have their say who do make more of a effort.

But the rate of abortion has hardly declined in many years, and I reject the idea that abortion should be publicly funded, while at the same time there should be minimal accountability shown by anyone involved in abortion, while at the same time no one can suggest anything different otherwise they will be called an "extremist".

It is odd how I can posts on other forums regards completely different topics, (eg from environment to international politics to weaponry) but if I post on something connected to issues such as abortion or family issues, I get called numerous names.

I think people are trying to protect the status quo, and in the case of abortion, the status quo is abominable.

So again “Still waiting for some real suggestions on how to decrease the abortion rate.”, and if someone has some suggestions, they can leave out any name calling, unsubstantiated inferences, attacking the poster and not addressing the topic etc.

Timkins, you are overly sensitive, if you think Xena and Trinity are flaming or defaming you, I suggest you get on the wrong side of say, a Col Rouge! I agree with Trinity's comment about forcing women to term is totalialism in the extreme. I am not surprised that abortion rates have not gone down since the advent of the Pill, rather I would have thought they would have increased, as it now being legal to have an abortion, accurate stats exist, as they would not have been in the dark ages when women were forced underground.

Re reducing the rate of abortion? Outside celibacy for men and women, continuing sex education in schools, free access to contraception for women and more research into reversible vasectomies for men may be a start. Encouraging men who have no desire to be a father to think about a vasectomy as a choice. Free condoms of course, more STDs and pregnancies have been transmitted because of a young man's embarrassment at having to front at a chemist and that's if they had the money to buy them. But not the special deluxe models, just your garden variety condoms.

"It is odd how I can posts on other forums regards completely different topics, (eg from environment to international politics to weaponry) but if I post on something connected to issues such as abortion or family issues, I get called numerous names."

I don't suppose that it's occurred to Timkins that the difference in response is most probably due to the content of what he writes, rather than anything about him as a person. Indeed, I've noticed that when he writes on other topics his comments tend to be quite reasonable and lucid, but when it comes to topics that are associated with women, families, feminism or abortion [deleted for flaming, poster suspended for 28 days for continually breaking rules].

[Flaming as well.]

To all posters

As a female I am sick and tired of hearing stuff along the lines of "men and their seeds". I am sick and tired of women blaming men for pregnancy. Women have their own seeds [presumably of joy]. They want to have sex with men. They choose to have sex with men (apart from rape). When they engage in sexual intercourse it is inevitable that they may become pregnant.

Women should stop their bs. Learn other and healthier ways of making love - and it does not cost a cent!

Spare me from this ridiculous blaming game
Cheers
Kay

I think the abortion debate is a load of bs. Women can choose not to have sexual intercourse - yet they can still make love with their male partner.

Di & Garra - I can only endorse what you say here. It appears that Timkins has confused opinions derived from his posts as personal attacks. It is true that only on topics of feminism, critiques of male behaviour (he interprets this as slurs), families and of course abortions, that Timkins receives the most challenging posts to his opinion. And that is as it should be. This is an Opinion Forum. Timkins you'll just have to develop a thicker skin mate.

Di

Good point about the Col Rouges on this site - now thats flaming. About condoms I've always fancied black myself - although my partner tells me black makes things look smaller.....;-)

Kalweb

I'm not sure I understand the overall point of your post. I don't see that women posters are blaming everything on men and I'm male - therefore likely to be more sensitive. If you are sick of reading about the abortion debate then just don't.

I agree there are others ways to have sex without penetration (if that's what you meant). However, humans being humans they will do what comes naturally.... oops.

I sense a certain hostility in the tone of your post. Are you anti-abortion then? Do you agree with Kathy Woolfs claim that Natasha is out of step?

I don't think our Tash is out of step - to make abortion an emotional coaster ride via intrusive and excessive counselling will not achieve anything - I doubt it will decrease the overall abortion rate and may in fact force some more easily manipulated women to term who would rather not be parents. These women may then take out their negativity on their children. Not a good result.

Cheers to all