LAurie

I needed to take breath - and I guess I didn't. If I get flamed too - I really don't care I was just utterly dismayed by Timkins' actions. In fact apart from this post I don't think I'll bother with the rest of this forum tonight.

On topic, I think your point about full disclosure is reasonable.

My concern is the same as a point Ambo has made in that women should not be subjected to a merry-go-round of excessive and intrusive counselling at a very emotional and fraught time. What women really need is (as I and others have said) is love and support. Not much of that here.

It is only common sense that all people involved be fully informed as much as possible. However, there is a point where a decision has to be made and this can only be done by the person who is pregnant.

Dear all, I don't propose to do anything about Timkins. He doesn't appear to have broken any forum rules and from where I sit has probably only succeeded in making a fool of himself with the Ambulance Service. He's certainly made himself a fool on this forum - "I'm going to tell on you," is not an effective or serious form of rebuttal.

I wouldn't be too worried if I were Ambo. If he is an ambulance officer, I wasn't aware that it is an offence for him to be in favour of abortion. If he isn't then it is a waste of time, no matter what the circumstances, going to the Ambulance Service. No-one, apart from Ambo, knows who he is, so he's not going to suffer any personal embarrassment.

Can I suggest that the best way to deal with Timkins is to ignore him?

GrahamY,
Thankyou for your commentary on my posts, and as you have said, I have not broken any forum rules (and only once have I had a post modified for being off-topic, with no posts deleted for flaming etc) You have been critical of my posts, but without explanation, examples, evidence etc, and then telling others to ignore the posts. That is not debate.

The matter with Ambo has been addressed to the Ambulance Services, but I somehow doubt that he is an ambulance officer, and I also stated to them that I though he was someone masquerading as an ambulance officer, which should be of concern to them. I have worked with ambulance officers in the past, (when working within company Workplace Health and Safety), and I know that ambulance officers are specifically trained to refer members of the public to doctors for advice on health matters such as pregnancy, as their main training and priority is giving First Aid. It is drilled into them.

However doctors, nurses, paramedics, ambulance officers etc are also trained to follow the principle of preserving human life as much as possible, and this includes children (whether those children have been born or not), and if there was a doctor, nurse, ambulance officer etc even publicly suggesting that a child should be killed if one of it’s parents did not want it, then I would think it very necessary for the public to be reporting that.

It would be interesting to know how many abortion counselling services also have a general policy of preserving human life as much as possible, and how much their staff are trained to seek out or investigate possible alternatives to the mother having the abortion. (eg. Adoption).

Those abortion clinics that do not require a woman to have a doctor’s referral, or to have undertaken previous counselling before attending the clinic for the actual abortion, would be rather suspect regards this.

Go away for a few days and come back to a very interesting issue. Raised by the indefatigable Timkins.

A fact that appears to have been overlooked by Timkins is that abortion is legal and furthermore; it is performed by medical professionals!

Another truth is that in Australia, medical professionals are free to discuss their private opinions provided there is no breach of confidentiality. Therefore posters like myself and Kalweb are free to state whether or not we agree with abortion. And we have done so.

I am trying to imagine the complete and utter idiot Timkins made of himself in his feeble attempt at slander. He would have been informed that the opinion of an ambulance officer is his own private opinion and therefore nothing to do with the Ambulance Service. No further action would be taken or even considered.

I appreciate the comments from Laurie & Trinity, however I do not wish to have the claims Timkins made deleted. I would rather they remain on record for everyone to see.

This behaviour of Timkins illustrates clearly the need for anonymity on this website. Unfortunately there are posters who are very vindictive if they hold a difference of opinion.

Sad really because Timkins can be very erudite and informative on many other topics.

Thank you, GrahamY your comments are appreciated and correct. In fact I debated about even bothering to post this but thought I should point out how this underscores the need for anonymity.

Ambo,
I have noted your continuous attempts to stereotype myself (even though you know very little about myself), and I will repeat these words again each time you do it.

Perhaps if you want to keep portraying yourself as an Ambulance Officer, you should be prepared to state your name or Ambulance Officer number. Failure to do that would indicate you are possibly masquerading as an Ambulance Officer only.

When the fog, misinformation, and propaganda regarding abortion is cleared, probably the following becomes prominent:-

1. Many women do not use contraception themselves, despite the considerable range of contraception available to them, and many women rely totally on the male condom (which is not very reliable outside of clinical trials)
2. Abortions are very easy to obtain (and in most states do not require a doctor’s referral or prior-counselling)
3. Compared to abortions, the number of adoptions occurring in Australia is very minimal (and we have become a country of abortionists, not child adopters).

All these issues have a common characteristic:- Many women are following what is most convenient for them in the short term, and this is then hidden behind the mantra of “women’s choice”.

Dear Ambo

Thanks for your post and good on you. I think that others outside of medical, nursing, and paramedical professionals will appreciate it as I did.

You are of course, correct. As a nurse I am bound by a Code of Conduct, an Australian Code of Nursing Ethics and an International Code of Nursing Ethics. Even so, I have every right to speak about abortion outside of my working hours on the proviso that I do not breach confidentiality. However, say for example that I am anti-abortion (which I am not) and that I am nursing a woman who is going to have an abortion - I have no right whatsoever to berate the woman re her choice. I am bound to respect her decision - even if I do not share her values (such as religion) or viewpoint.

Ambo, you raised a really good point about anonymity in this Forum. Until now I had thought it was unnecessary. Mmmm, not so anymore.

I also concur with you re Timkins often erudite postings - even if I do not agree with him. He usually provides some interesting links and alternative viewpoints - and surely that is what good debate is all about?

Thanks again Ambo
Cheers
Kay