Robert,
The Sex Discrimination’s paper “Striking the Balance” is actually a background paper for the inquiry into work and family that is being conducted by the Sex Discrimination Commission. Submissions to that inquiry can be made at http://www.hreoc.gov.au/sex_discrimination/) .

However all 7 authors of the paper are female, and all the members of the committee that will undertake the actual inquiry are also female. I would think that the all female nature of the inquiry has been purposely arranged such that male vilification can be maximised by persons such as Pru Goward.

There are many things left out of the paper to make males look as culpable as possible. For example :- The paper quotes figures from the HILDA survey, but routinely ignores other figures from that same survey.

In the HILDA paper “Usual and Preferred Working Hours in Couple Households”
http://www.latrobe.edu.au/publichealth/family_studies/2005papers/Drago,Tseng,Wooden_pp.46-61_Abstract.pdf mothers where asked what were their present and preferred work hours. In each category, the mothers wanted to work considerably less hrs than their husbands. Not the same number of hours, and definitely not more.

There were other papers released from the HILDA survey on male and female satisfaction which are described in a Bettina Ardnt article:-
“Analysis of HILDA data by Yi-Ping Tseng, of the Melbourne Institute, shows wives with the highest life satisfaction in Australia are in families where either the man is the sole earner or working significantly longer hours than the woman."
”http://www.smh.com.au/cgi-bin/common/popupPrintArticle.pl?path=/articles/2003/07/28/1059244559445.html

So many, if not the majority of women want the father to be the main breadwinner,(and if he didn't, then he would probably become divorced), but this has rarely been mentioned by the Sex Discrimination Commission (ie useing selective data in their paper).

However if women also want to do less unpaid work such as housework, then they should develop ways to reduce that housework, and there are innumerable ways to do that.

I am enjoying reading the posts here - some good sense, some fair dinkum stuff and humour. The drain of the Muslim/Islam terrorist debate etc on other threads has been just that - draining. This is a refreshing, albeit serious, matter for discussion.

RObert - thanks for your post. You are sure to give some single fathers another view of what could be a rather depressing world. Good on you!

BOAZ David - what can I say but congratulations! Your post was touching and humane. For the first time I think we can start to get to know the "real you" - without endless quotations from the Bible and the Kuran. And the absence of capitalisation to push a point was more than refreshing (whatever that is!).

Timkins - I always respect the thought that you put into your postings and I thank you for the time and trouble that you give to other posters in providing so many links for researching other ideas. Can you look back to my previous post and tell me what my brother is worth? I am not joking. His wife died when girl one was 15 months and girl two was 5 months of age (he was 40 years of age at the time). He is still single and caring for his beloved daughters.

Now hear this! You are all going to think that I am crazy. I love housework (despite my academic and nursing background! I love the feeling of being clean and making things clean around the home. I love the feeling when guests remark how "warm" our home feels. I love decorating, cooking, gardening. I make all of my own stuff and grow it when I can. Yum! The pleasure that me and my husband get cannot be summed up in dollar terms. Our home is definitely our castle. And my husband kicks in with everything.

Cheers all!

Kalweb,
I have been solely looking after one child since she was the age of 2, but I certainly could not equate paid with unpaid work.

The present inquiry from the Sex Discrimination Commission is tied into feminism, money and the draconian Family Law system, and the double standards that are involved can be best read about in the Bettina Ardnt article

Eg:-"So women are hardly marching in the streets demanding their husbands work shorter hours. Hell, no. It's clear that most wives feel it is in their family's interest to keep their husband's nose to the grindstone, even if it means he misses out on time with children. And men are also accepting of this arrangement - until their marriages fall apart. For it is then the crunch comes and breadwinning dads lose out badly. That's the irony. The married men who once were rated most highly by their wives - as partners and as fathers - then have their willingness to support their families count against them. When it comes to a battle over custody, men who worked those long hours are least likely to be allowed shared care and usually end up as visiting fathers with fortnightly contact."
http://www.smh.com.au/cgi-bin/common/popupPrintArticle.pl?path=/articles/2003/07/28/1059244559445.html

So women have been pleased to have the father in the workforce, but come divorce time, they will claim up to 80% of assets, claim custody of the children, claim the various government pensions, claim child support etc, and base those claims on the fact that the father spent so much time in the workforce (which is what the mothers wanted in the first place).

The Sex Discrimination Commission is also pleased to vilify and malign males as much as possible, present selective data in their papers, have all female inquiries, and also overlook the double standards that are occurring.

If someone is having problems with housework, they could think about ways of reducing it, or if they want tips on how to reduce that housework, they could subscribe to the FLYLADDY newsletters at http://www.flylady.net/

Kay... this is indeed the 'real' me :) but I'm also the 'protector/social warrior'.. hey.. I'm a guy.

Dan.. a womans place.... hmmmm well, I would not be dogmatic on it being 'the home' though their is just one verse I know which suggests it, and I think Paul had a bad hair day when he wrote it :) so I won't quote it.

Kay demonstrates wonderfully all that I would want to say on the subject. There is something very beautiful about 'complementary' roles and personally, I feel better if the 'little woman' :) is looking after inside stuff (but she doesn't have to STAY inside (sorry Kay, had to use the caps for that one :)

At the moment, I'm building a room in our factory, my wife is doing some process work, but when I get close to the end of the job, there she is, sweeping and tidying up without being asked, she helps hold this or that, and while I'm much stronger than her, she still 'carries' me at times with her incredible determination to 'get things done'.

The other side of the womans life/world I note, is how happy they and we can be, is when there is a big event. Men have things they are best at, and so do the ladies, can you imagine all of us getting in each others way, falling over each other.

Sometimes I think that in our pc gender freedom, we can be awfully alone and lost. I much prefer an accepted dichotomy of roles.

Hi R0bert,

I understand your position, and thanks for your considered response. I admire your solutions!

There's a paradox you're identifying which I'm familiar with, and one that Timkins has expressed frustration with before: that of the woman=good, man=bad attitude.

As a woman, it frustrates me too. And I'm sure I've said before, I have two little boys and every day I try to counter those negative, antagonistic messages. I'm determined my boys will grow up respectful and considerate, but feeling no less deserving of respect because they're male.

Yes, these are choices I make. I don't resent the work I do. I love it (except the nappies)! My post was to present a realistic assessment of why some believe this work is worth a six-figure salary. I don't, and wouldn't want the money. I get my kicks out of working with beautiful people, and working for the people I adore. I'm lucky. But you're right - whatever generalisations we make, there are always exceptions.

I take my boys shopping with me because it's a fantastic opportunity for practical education on consumerism. While we can take a long time, I get them to touch, feel and examine packaging, quiz them on the contents, and ask them to consider why particular advertising tactics are used. Believe it or not, I can stand in line next to the lolly counter for 10 minutes and neither of them asks for a thing. My eldest says, 'Mum, they're trying to sell me junk'. They're very savvy. He doesn't ask for me to buy him toys - what use are they when he spends so much of his days making his own, and I make the rest...

Believe me, I waste no time on cleaning spotlessly - most days I don't stop moving and the house is still a bombshell.

I like the fridge magnet my mother-in-law has: "Dull women have immaculate houses". No offence to anyone with an immaculate house. It just makes me feel better...

Cheers,
Tracy

kalweb, thanks for the kind words. I'd been a bit concerned about the most recent post - the balance between making a point and earbashing can be tricky to find sometimes.

Boaz_David, agreed that it is nice when two people are able to work together in a manner which makes a larger whole. Reinforcing and or complimenting each other. On the other hand it can be a living hell when that is not the way it goes, the man plays roadblock to a partner exploring her potential, the woman who is after a provider and he'd better provide as much as she wants etc.

I've been over this point previously with others but it is important enough I'll go there again. I think we are going through a period of transition, some parts of that transition are not working well right now. Kind of like the mess you get when you move house.

We are redefining relationships, maybe in part as a result of changed religious beliefs but possibly both are a consequence of changed needs. A shift in techology (and probably other factors) is changing some of the needs of people and we are trying to find new ways of living our lives.

Right now we have a mix of the old and transition and they do not always go well together. Sometimes the old furniture does not work well in the new house. Sometimes we dispose of old furniture and then find that what we've replaced it with is not as comfortable.

What are the core things we need to remember from the old structures and how do they apply in the new world we are building? We can't move back to the old house, how do we make the new one work for us?

R0bert