garra, 'conformational bias' is what you get when you inadvertently 'conform' to to the changes MS Word makes if you are silly enough to compose a post in that product. I spotted the error after the post has gone in.

Nothing you have said so far has given me reason to think the confirmational bias rests with me. I've outlined some of my concerns about the material being discussed. I have posted links to what I believe to be independant material which supports my viewpoint in relation to rates of physical violence and child abuse. So far nobody has bothered to come back with any material detailing problems with the material I have referenced.

Not a single proof that the "Abused Child Trust" or the "NSW Child Death Review team" are fronts for extremist men's groups.

Not a single comment about flaws in the methodology used by Headey, Scott and de Vauss (or by Straus and Gelles who are referenced in other material). The Headey, Scott and de Vauss document appear to go to great pains to ensure that bias is not introduced into the discussion. Material supporting the view that men do the bulk of Child abuse and or DV does not appear to make any such attempt.

Please point me to a study which supports your view which has made clear and reasonable attempts to remove bias in both the collection methods and in the analysis.
R0bert

Hear Hear! , RObert

Snuffkin, you must be watching a different news broadcast to me. It is true that such murders are too common but no way are they an every day event. It is also true that women are more likely to be killed by a spouse or former spouse than visa versa but the reverse happens often enough to be relevant.

In a three year study http://www.kids.nsw.gov.au/publications/fatalneglect.html the NSW Child Death Review Team found that 5 children died in the context of parental dispute and family breakdown (in this study - two families and both the killers were the fathers). In the same period the deaths of 6 children were precipited by either their mother(4) or their mother's de facto's(2) mental illness (0 from a fathers mental illness).

In a previous study more kids were killed by mothers than fathers in the family breakdown category.

How many of your friends have hit or assaulted a man or consider it OK to do so? You might like to look at that finger pointing at men and check where the other fingers are pointing.

How many seperated or divorced dads are in your group of friends? Have you talked to many about their expecience of DV and the pain of having kids removed from their care regardless of how good a job they do as fathers. Stats are relevant because they help us see beyond our own experience and the experience of those who confide in us. The world is bigger than that and much more diverse (also friends don't always tell us the whole truth).

Lets stop the gender blame game, and get on with fixing the problem of violence regardless of who is doing it. It is a problem for men and women, not just men and the continual insistance that it is a male problem is hindering us from moving forwards to a safer society.

R0bert

Hi Garra, Are “women” and “liars and exaggerators” in the one sentence too much for you to accept? It seems so, since you want to describe my reasonable arguments as “outrageously misogynist garbage”. If you read the full discussion that is going on here, it is easy for all to see what coloured glasses you are wearing. Extremely pink, I’d say. You don’t think Snuffkin making sweeping statements like “In my personal life nearly every single one of my female friends/aquaintances has been physically hit, assaulted, and or raped by a man. I am just an average suburban mum. This is reality, and it is an ugly one that men must face up to.”, is a wee bit of misandrist garbage?

If Snuffkin’s partner broke her finger as she has implied then she should not have just obtained an AVO/RVO, she should have pressed for assault charges to be laid. But the domestic violence industry mob don’t want women to do things like that, because if women had to prove their case “beyond reasonable” doubt then the whole farce that is the situation today, would be exposed bigtime and they would have to go and get meaningful jobs that contribute to society; not help to destroy it.

You say “Tell us Ros, when were you most recently the subject of an AVO/RVO or similar?” I see what you are trying to say ie AVO/RVO=violent man, and attach that label to me because I responded in kind to Snuffkin’s firey comments.

Sorry, having an AVO/RVO taken out against you, is a very poor indicator of whether anyone is violent or not, as you should know. Most are obtained though a sausage machine like process where the substance of allegations is rarely properly tested. And in any case, I have never been found guilty of any offence, so Garra and Snuffkin, stick that up you misandrist jumpers.

Wow, I am a woman, just an middle class suburban mum and I have never experienced being physically hit, assaulted, and or raped by a man. I don’t think it is a reality across the board!.

However, I have witnessed situations where I would have to give the man a medal for not reacting violently to the situation. And situations where I don’t know why the woman would want to continue living and accepting the conditions and circumstances that she is living in.

I think that Robert is right, people need to stop pointing the finger, both males and females are capable of negative and violent behavior and they are both more than capable of lying, exagerrating and presenting a situation to suit. What really needs to be considered is the children as they are the innocent victims and they are the ones that not only suffer, they learn by their parents example and the cycle continues.

Adults need to learn to put the children wellbeing first and, they need to learn when its in everybody's best interest to keep their mouth shut.

Most of the forum comments would agree that domestic violence against any gender is bad.

None of the comments that support Michael's account of gender bias in DV reports discount the trauma that women experience in DV situations. But they do try to identify that men also experience traumatic DV situations - yet these remain largely unrecognised and certainly un-supported.

Sarantakos, the Sociologists referenced earlier agrees that we need to get away from the genderised description of DV policies if social support is to succeed.

"Domestic Violence Policies: Where Did We Go Wrong?"
Download: www.nuancejournal.com.au/documents/three/saran2.pdf

The situation for women, men, and children can only get worst until this failure in DV policy is addressed.

I have counselled numerous men who have called the police for repeated acts of violence by their wife only to be told that the man will have to leave the house.

One man, removed his children to the safety of the street for fear of injury while waiting for the police. When they arrive they told him that their policy is to remove the male (this is very common). The children were sent back into the house with the female. When he rang me he was suicidal - mainly because the experience reinforced his realisation that society views him second class and offers no support when a male suffers a crisis (an tries to protect his children from the violence).

When DV shelters have opened in Australia they were full of such men and their children, but they have been closed down - no doubt because of gender policies.

A read of Sarantakos' paper will reveal just how gender based policy defeats attempts to end DV or support victims.