Ringtail, I’ve had a read of the articles you referred to in an earlier post. No significant issues with the MFCC stuff other than different views on the proportion of DV committed by men.

The AIC article is another matter. Most of the specific research appears too been conducted for “The Office of the Status of Women” so I am guessing that the inbuilt bias is justified on the basis that their concern is with women not men. A lot of the Govt bias in DV management appears to be justified on this basis.
- The report appears to work from the assumption that DV is seriously genderised and never seriously questions this assumption. Despite a reference to the Straus and Gelles work the idea that “within the family women are about as violent as men” is pretty much ignored for the rest of the report. The view that wife to husband violence is defensible is put along with the idea that women generally suffer far more serious injury (stats I have seen provide some support for the latter but also suggest that the gender divide for serious injury is one of degree not an overwhelming majority).
- Every example used where genders are specified involved male perpetrators and female victims. Even at 85% there should be some examples with male victims and female perpetrators.
- They continue to mix physical and non physical DV. Fine if the research is clear about this but it all looks pretty muddy. Is there any research which suggests that men an overwhelming proportion of non-physical DV?

Some other topics are missing, eg
. Where are the questions about withholding sex within a monogamous marriage to force an issue?

. Where are the questions about overspending to go with the questions about withholding money?

. Where are the questions about nagging?

. What about putting down a male partners dress sense (one for Di with her love of Safari Suits – friendly dig Di)?
etc

Please have a look at the Heady, Scott and De-Vauss study. Word limit.

R0bert

Darebin Domestic Violence Network, very much your typical

network, lists ALL of the following as signs of domestic violence.

• Do you feel like you are walking on eggshells?

• Are you told what to do, when to do it, what to wear?

• Do you have to account for your time?

• Are you forced to have sex when you don't want to?

• Are you made to feel scared?

• Are you hit, kicked or pushed around? Do you have things thrown at, or near you?
• Are you cut off from family and friends?

• Is your partner possessive or jealous?

• Does your partner control you and the money?

Typical examples of wife bashing? Think again.

- The average husband DOES feel as if he’s walking on eggshells every time he walks from the garden to the toilet with anything on his boots.

- The average husband is told what to do by his wife absolutely all the time. Including how to do things that she has no knowledge of. Something goes wrong and the average wife is promptly screaming at her husband “DO SOMETHING” That’s domestic violence! That’s husband bashing!

- The average husband has to account for every time he works back late. He’s routinely accused of infidelity even though he’s got the overtime money to prove otherwise.

- The average husband is hit, kicked, and pushed around. The shelters and the law list every angry shove, by a short tempered husband, as wife bashing. Is there a single female reader here who as NEVER, given her man an impatient shove? Yes! You are a husband basher!

- The average husband is cut off from family and friends. Her family is welcome in the home, his are not.

The only thing really known about husband bashing is that it is the only form of domestic violence which remains socially acceptable in large areas of the community.

Erica,

There is no provision in SA DV legislation that there need be ' 3 police reports' in order for a woman to obtain a DVRO (AVO/DVO etc- or that she has to 'prove' domestic violence to the police before she is able to go before a Magistrate - as you have suggested. (In any event the role of police is to investigate or to assist - not to 'rule on evidence' - that is a judicial function only that is authorised by Parliament through the approval of statutory legislation.

You may have been mis-informed. There is a provision that SA police may assist in obtaining a DVRO (Domestic Violence Act 1994)

( http://www.parliament.sa.gov.au/Catalog/legislation/Acts/d/1994.22.un.htm ) by

helping to type up a 'statement of evidence', but their role goes no further than that.

As in all other jurisdictions, all that is really required is to go before a Magistrate, on an 'ex parte' basis and state reasons for apprehended fear (or to lie unequivocally, as the case may be).

The police may assist in obtaining an order by telephone but again their role is limited to identifying themselves as an officer and giving a badge number and reciting the allegations that have been made.

This provision is no doubt aimed at assisting women who live in remote localities where there is no ready access to a Magistrates Court.

Ultimately however, Magistrates are the only one’s legally authorised to grant an order.

As to the 'Family' Court (when it finally gets around to having the case listed for hearing some two years later) it most certainly does have it's thinking coloured by the existence of a DV order.

Sadly the FC too often presumes the violence as proven by the mere existence of the order whilst simultaneously failing to investigate whether the order was based on actual evidence presented to the Magistrates Court or whether the interim order was merely granted Ex-Parte and then subsequently signed up on a 'By Consent by Without Admissions' basis by the respondent.

Great posts everyone!

Thanks for reinforcing my views on DV. Seems there’s only one sure-fire way of avoiding it - and marriage aint it.

Has anyone ever wondered why children are dragged into witnessing seemingly staged bouts? Such as the ones that seem all about the quality or availability of dinner?

Picking a fight is easy. The look on her face, on his refusal to participate? Priceless!

sparticusss, I hope the situation is not that bad for "the average husband".

My concern in this topic is with stats gathering which is very one sided. Stats which assume that issues impacting on women are important and at the same time ignore issues relevant to men.

I tend to think that many of the non-physical issues are situational. Concepts such as intent become relevant. The act of binding with another human being in a spousal relationship is not an easy one for most of us. It involves a complex rearrangement of boundaries, some surrender of autonomy (by both parties), a willingness to seek the well being of the other above your own etc. The mix will be different for each couple doing so and relect their own values, hopes, dreams and baggage. If the relationship survives the process will be ongoing as they learn about each other and themselves.

One parties actions can have a massive impact on the other and there is a legitimate place for behaviours which respect the other persons needs. There is some legitimacy to not wanting garden dirt trudged through the house (speaking as a keen gardener myself). There is a corresponding legitimacy to arranging things to make it as easy as possible for the gardener to access a toilet.

When needs become a control mechanism it becomes a form of abuse. Outside of that it is a necessary part of two people living together.

When one party insists on their own autonomy and refuses to respect the other party having any autonomy there is a problem.

I'm not sure how any outside body can determine the boundary between the realities of life and abuse for most of these issues. I really would like to see physical and non-physical abuse treated differently in the DV debate.

Physical DV is relatively easy to draw a line around identify. The other stuff needs serious thinking about the nature of spousal relationships and I suspect a lot of research.

People are different, staying together involves lots of give and take and love.
R0bert

Spot on post RObert, have trekked in dirt myself being more interested in gardens than indoors. But that is all about learning to live together as you said.

Men practice the same psychological tactics as women - I most certainly felt like I was walking on eggshells when living with my ex - anything could set him off.

Have read your link - but am not convinced that women are as physically violent as men - just doesn't ring true (life experience, police stats, hospital stats etc) and also this physical violence doesn't manifest itself in female behaviour in other areas of life to the same extent as men - so why now?. Also your comments about nagging, criticism of appearance etc are tactics used by both sexes

However, (and I have said this before) I have no doubt that women indulge in psychological abuse as much as men. And men really do need understanding and support as much as women.

I also wish this forum hadn't become such a bun-fight about who is worse than the other. The way I see it both men and women are pretty flawed - I don't see where this blame game and manipulation of facts is getting us. It makes me sad that I can't express an opinion without being totally vilified and I have felt this alot from certain pro male posters.

Anyway, RObert thanks for your POV and to the others who work hard to understand and try to see other's POV's.