Di, u wish we could escape 'us/them' ? myyyyyy goodness. The sun has got to you dear, or is it post traumatic stress from the attempted Koori stoning ? As long as there is language and race there will be 'us/them'. sorry but true, and the 'them' will always be trying to sway things in 'their' favor, as much as 'we' will be trying to retain it as we made it. Human beings are political creatures as well as social, I truly don't think you 'get' this, nor do I think you ever go further in your thinking to 'where' 'they' wish to take the legal and social environment.

I could relate to you numerous incidents of cultural bad manners perpetrated by various 'them' where if I had done the same thing in their country there would have been an unruly mob in no time. Imagine playing loud, overwhelming Alice Cooper in a little malay village in Kelantan,a state of Malaysia which is quite the fundamentalist haven these days with a strong flavor of Sharia Law)

I observe that pretty much any race coming to a 'less ethnically and socially homogenous' place like Australia, simply act as if they were the only or predominant group in the place and regard or treat most others as if they were the irrelevant minority back in their own former homeland. The laws of statistics must be said to apply here, in that its not ALL such people, but it sure appears to be.

Now look at me, there I go with my xenophobia, I actually like to have 'english' as the linguistic flavor in this country, in public life and leasure places how arrogant of me. Funny though, I now speak 3 other languages because I also believe that THEY have the right to hear THEIR language spoken by me when I'm a guest in their country.

Petro Geogiou and his supporters base the release of illegal immigrants of unknown origin on emotional arguments,without consideration of logical consequences.

It is simple,just prove the logic behind official policy and my arguments wrong.I have not seen one iota of fact or logic to the contrary,just appeals about compassion with no consideration for the actual consequences.

Petro and his supporters are railing against the wishes of what we the electorate voted for in the last election.Is this the mode of of democracy that Mr Mugabe enjoys in Zimbabwe?

Thanks Arjay :-) One more time, just to get all the facts on the table, could you (or any other person who disagrees with Petro's bill) outline the reasons you support the government's current policy?

I have not read a single post here that makes out a persuasive case for detaining people (anyone, for that matter) indefinitely. I do think a proper checking process is necessary. I don't think it should take the years it takes DIMIA under the Howard government's policy and toxic war against compassion.

Nor have I heard anything convincing that justifies breaking up families in detention, separating children from one or both of their parents, keeping children behind razor wire or having male guards watching women showering and toileting.

Come to think of it, no-one here has explained why children and their immediate families should not be released from detention immediately pending determination of their applications unless a judicial officer finds that they pose a danger to the public or are likely to abscond.

Or why people who have been found to be bona fide refugees but have been granted only temporary protection visas should not be permitted to remain in Australia permanently.

Or why detention decisions made by DIMIA officers should not be subject to judicial scrutiny. Other decisions by public servants are externally reviewable, so why not these decisions too?

(Anyone who just wants to criticise me for what you think I stand for, rather than answering the actual issues here, please refrain. The "personal" is not political. It's just tiresome).

Fiona:
There probably are ways to deal with the illegal immigration problem without mandatory detention. The restrictionist organisations in the US and Migration Watch UK are not asking for it. Their plans probably are more humane so far as the genuine refugees are concerned, and I would not worry if, say, the Migration Watch proposals were implemented instead. However, the Georgiou bills have significant border protection weaknesses.

They do nothing to shorten the appeal process. There needs to be a final decision in a matter of weeks, so that illegal immigrants cannot establish themselves in the community while they pile delay on delay at enormous cost. What is wrong with having a panel to decide these cases? Asylum seekers would be entitled to representation, and hearings would be open to the public. People who conceal their identity or do other fraudulent things would go to jail, not detention centers.

They do nothing to discourage illegal immigrants in the community. I would suggest a million dollar fine with 10% going to the informer for people who hire illegal immigrants. Employers would be able to check people's citizenship or right to work with the Immigration Dept.

garra's short pathetic epitaph to the loss of peace and good will in our cities due to ethnic based crime and violence in our cities ,is a denial of the realities that face many western world nations who haven't been selective about the quality of immigrant regardless of enthnocentricity and are now paying the price of social and economic disintergration.

Human genetics is a very imprecise science,and we have to choose not only people with abilities,but also with attitudes of openess and tolerance.All is not well in the land of Aus.