Timkins, you have just gotta be a virgo or capricorn re your anal quoting of stats. (with all due respect to others out there that may share the same star sign). Some really good, anecdotal sharing of experiences has been written in this forum (which has certainly enlightened me about where different experiences can be shared and makes me think outside my particular square - and thank you especially Ringtail) and you just keep throwing stats around like yesterday's confetti. I think it was Ambo that said that we should all take responsibility for our actions re abuse towards others, not as man or woman but as adults. So true. And estrogen, testosterone and life and how we deal with our learned behaviour rears their ugly heads on a scary, and often, not intentional basis. But we live with the consequences and they help shape society. To continually quote stats is rather boring and does nothing to the debate, other than prove you've got to much time on your hands to be too introspective about any article that is posted here.

Di said “Certain facts reveal themselves that we can't deny and they are: men are the overwhelming majority of perpetuators of abuse and violence against women and children.”

Unfortunately the “facts” are not this way at all. Stereotyping and anecdotal evidence maybe, but the studies I have referenced were from government sites, and those studies were taxpayer funded.

If you prefer that the world is filled with anecdotal evidence only, and government bases its policies and decisions on anecdotal evidence, then you will have no say in how government spends your tax, you will have no say in anything government does, and government or the law can do whatever it likes to any citizen whatsoever based totally on anecdotal evidence, (and various government have done this to millions of people)

If you prefer to hear only negative comments made about males, and only positive comments made about females, then there is plenty of media for that, but unfortunately the majority of it is in the area of fiction.

Narcisststs use highly emotive persuading language. They spend much energy blaming others rather than reflecting on their own behaviour.
Some excerpts from this forum discussion:
RObert:
"We need more honest research"

"to break the false assumptions"

"behind the very real bias in the family law system
"Most of all we need polygraphs in the court room"
"the inbuilt biases in the data collection"
"the portrayal of men as much more agressive and violent in the home is hurting men in their view of themselves and relationships between men and women"
"interesting how focussed some people are on ignoring the plight of men suffering DV isn't it?"
"Even if DV was as genderised as some believe the unwillingness of some to have compassion for the male victims"
TIMKINS:
"Just another unsubstantiated, male maligning article that shows little research"

"so little reliable research has been undertaken into males, and so much written about males is contradictory, then one has to presume that very little that has been written about males is actually true"
"many maligning unsubstantiated remarks about young men "
"lambasting them to get married"
"most articles are written by complete non-experts"
"can be stereotyped or labelled with anything from being “misogynist” to being “poor” to having a secret “agenda”, to having a “vendetta” "
"these same people believe that none of their accusations need be substantiated in anyway"
"many DV studies have been highly gender biased"

and.....
"appears that there are few standards applied to those studies"
"It is unquestionable that violence outside the home is predominately carried out by males, but "
"in many articles written on males, violence often becomes the main focus"

duh....they're about DV!
"most articles overlook the fact that the majority of buildings are built by males"

....so ignore the violence already. You gotta roof over your head. What more do you want!
"the majority of food is grown by males"
... you eat don't you, when the swelling goes down.
", the majority of inventions come from males"

IUD, the pill, breast implants, come on!
"the majority of art is produced by males"

...so sensitive....
"males pay the majority of personal income tax etc"

....that goes to fund the refuge!
"Without males society would collapse very quickly."
....what about without controlling, violent males the DV stats would decrease dramatically and only male refuges need to be funded.
"When looked at objectively, the male gender is very much involved in keeping the ship afloat in very practical terms"
"that has been occurring for centuries"
geez...
"Graycar and Flood (who both seem to turn a blind eye to abuse perpetrated by females) "
bloody experts......
"So much for democracy or freedom of speech"
how dare they disagree....
"feminist-based assumptions "
"the unacceptability of all male violence (even it is for self-defense) against females"
"Data about female perpetrators of child abuse are apparently overlooked"
RObert and Timkins- You represent what is known as the mens' rights campaigners.

Enough already- go get therapy.

Happy, you are such a misnomer ;-)
If women are now done with ownership of narcissism, I would be happy to take some of it for my own personal use.

Wow, what a debate. I just heard about it and have signed up. Seeing that my work is being both quoted and misquoted, I thought I'd better direct people to the source.

You can find my short, acccessible piece on claims about women’s versus men’s violence here: http://www.xyonline.net/husbandbattering.shtml.

And this piece by Michael Kimmel gives a lengthier, more academic discussion: http://www.xyonline.net/malevictims.shtml

For more general readings on men and men's issues, see:

http://www.xyonline.net/articles.shtml

And for further critiques of ‘fathers’ rights’ and ‘men’s rights’ claims about family law, violence, custody, etc., here:

http://www.xyonline.net/articles.shtml#Violence

And here: http://www.xyonline.net/articles.shtml#father

Best wishes,

michael flood.