Yes Garra, we are the responsible sex, and should not blame anyone for our own failings. Our expectations should be lowered and our standards raised above those of the frolicking sex. I am not going to ask you to share your personal failings with us. Surely, we will all independently learn this very same secret after we acquire a couple of divorces and some grandchildren under our belts. Hey, even my ex may become my very best friend when I am no longer compelled to support her laziness, and have no further interest in sex.

And Garra, you being a ladies man and all, a gentleman’s gentleman, so to speak – what exactly are our collective failings? Blaming women? The law? Having expectations?

It’s a good thing the women don’t blame us men (or the law), for their predicament for that would surely constitute hypocrisy - right? We may individually, from time to time, suffer their scorn, but collectively, we rock their world! Right? They appreciate our collective efforts to raise their children, build their buildings etc. etc.

Bozzie,
You go Shirley!

Thanks for the question, "Seeker". I think that several aspects of our/yours/my failings are evident in this statement:

"Hey, even my ex may become my very best friend when I am no longer compelled to support her laziness, and have no further interest in sex"

I can remember thinking like that, and how bitter and sad I was. Fortunately I got over it, and learnt to have more meaningful relationships with women (and children...even with other men).

And sweet heaven forfend the day that I "have no further interest in sex"!

Yeah, right ...

That's no explanation for anything Garra.

No doubt we'll all reach that comfort zone eventually.

Seeker, this particular forum concerns what it means to be a man - not a big whinge about how women are good, bad or ugly. So far you haven't stated what makes you a man.

For me it IS about responsibility, having a good relationship with my ex and most importantly with my kids, yes she has custody - she wasn't the who trashes houses. I also have solid friendships with a number of women - their support has helped me resolve alot of issues I had going thru my divorce.

Now seeker time to take a good hard look at yourself - can be painful - are you man enough?

Garra,

So I’m “misogynist”, “warped” etc. Is this true is it, or is this just puerile name calling in an attempt to silence someone? The vast majority of my postings are in response to people who call me various names.

“The trick is to stop blaming others for our own failings, both at the level of the individual and collectively as men.”

This is a discriminatory statement, and it is also at the centre of the original article, as it implies that men only must change, and women need not change anything. A less discriminatory and more credible statement would be:-

“The trick is to stop blaming others for our own failings, both at the level of the individual and collectively as men or women.”

You can read something about the economic affects of divorce at http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,12768570%255E601,00.html

This article is typically biased towards the women, but on average the mother becomes asset rich / cash poor and many eventually depend on welfare accordingly. The father is plunged into debt, and he often becomes a slave of the workplace so as to work his way out of that debt. So the life for many men becomes a form of workplace slavery, combined with fortnightly visits to his children, combined with being regularly negatively portrayed by people in the media and also in academia. You can accept this life for many men if you like.

In regards to DV studies:- I have seen the studies produced by people such as Australia’s Dr Michael Flood, who also advocates that men must change but not women also. He also advocates, (or at least advertises), slogans such as “Hit them where it hurts”, “My Goddess creamed your God”, “Riots not diets”, “The Pope's mother had no choice”, “Die guppy scum!” etc http://www.xyonline.net/slogansandgraffiti.shtml.

Hardly very responsible slogans from someone being paid by the tax payer, and many of his studies on men are on par with his slogans. You can accept all that also, or maybe you are too afraid of being called “misogynist” should you object.

Well said from a typical mysoginist, men's rights defender, as usual using “Dodgy methods and bogus statistics”. You didn't mention they are examples of feminist slogans. How convenient to omit such slogans he especially likes: 'Men can stop rape'; 'Ask,listen,repect'; 'No sex without consent'; 'Men get raped too.'
How about: 'Break the silence, on men's violence.' What real men would have a problem with that? It's time to focus on the responsibilities to the larger crowd rather than men's rights rights.