Di, your comments "men are the overwhelming majority of perpetuators of abuse and violence against women and children" and "stats are stats".
Stats are not stats if you bias the collection. The DV issue is hard to prove, Child abuse is easier to prove. The following samples from government resources don't tend to show men as an overwhelming majority of perpetrators.

NSW Govt NSW Child Death Review Team report on "Fatal assault and neglect of children and young people"
http://www.kids.nsw.gov.au/files/cdrt_fatal_abuse_neglect2003.pdf
Table 4.3 (page 63) Suspect’s relationship to child by fatal assault group.

Suspects...........Non-Accidental..Mental..Family.....Teenagers..Total
...................injury..........illness..breakdown
Familial
Biological mother..3...............4........0...........0 .........7
only
Biological father..6...............0........5...........0..........11
Mother and father..3...............0........0...........0..........3
Mother and male....2...............0........0...........0..........2
de facto
Male de facto......2...............2........0...........0..........4
only
Foster mother......1...............0........0...........0..........1
Male relative......1...............0........0...........0..........1

Qld Govt Substantiated Child abuse stats
http://www.abusedchildtrust.com.au/content/child_abuse_2.asp#
Family types involved in substantiated abuse and neglect:

27% two parent - natural families

23% two parent - other families

37% single female parent families

5% single male parent families

Unfortunately these don't show who actually does the abuse and neglect.

The Australian Government Child Protection Clearinghouse is also worth a look

Child Protection Australia 2002-03
http://www.aihw.gov.au/publications/cws/cpa02-03/cpa02-03-c02.pdf
Page 12 provides summary data on family type, national stats on P13 but not copied into this post for space reasons.

The following extract provides clarification the proportion of children living in different family types.

"Children of female sole parents accounted for a relatively high proportion of children in substantiations. However, the children of male sole parents are also over-represented in relation to their frequency in the general population. This becomes evident when these data are translated into rates of substantiations in relation to the size of the population group. For example, in Victoria the rate of substantiations for children in female sole-parent families was 19.2 per 1,000, and the rate for children in male-headed one-parent families was 17.2 per 1,000 (Table 2.12; ABS 1997)."

Why is it that some correspondents are so much in denial concerning the fact that violence - domestic or otherwise - is very predominantly the province of the male gender? No amount of reference to media articles, dodgy studies or misinterpreted stats will alter the reality that men are much more violent than women are.

What is the point of reproducing the above statistics? The NSW figures refer only to deaths, and the numbers are so small that it is not possible to extrapolate statistically significant trends from them. The Qld stats might be more useful, but they don't tell us anything about who perpetrated (and/or perpetuated) the violence.

While there may be some merit in investigating apparent inequities in custodial and child support arrangements following relationship/marriage breakdowns, "men's rights" activists do their cause no favours by bleating incessantly and disingenuously about evil feminists, supposedly violent women and lazy ex-wives.

Real men recognise that, while many improvements have been made, we still have a long way to go before real equality between the genders is achieved in our society, and are willing to cede some of their dominance to women in order that this may occur.

Remember, women are still under-represented in boardrooms, all levels of politics and upper management, earn less than men, and are still beaten and murdered by us at rates that should make us men ashamed. Instead, some men are apparently very much in denial.

garra, you appear to be reading a lot into the post that is not there. Earlier posts have included references from a feminist author (Patricia Pearson) who attempts to address some of these issues honestly - from the viewpoint that lies about female violence are actually hurting women.

I try very hard not to use dodgy stats, I made a point of stating that the child abuse and neglect stats did not state who was the perpetrator. Thankfully the death stats are a small sample, the patterns vary over time (sometimes women kill more kids than men during family breakdown etc) but always the overall number of kids killed by their parents are not notable for the gender of the parent doing the killing (some categories are genderised, fathers generally kill more kids during family breakdown, mothers generally kill more where mental illness is an issue).

None of us to the best of my knowledge are denying that men are more physically violent outside the home, what is being challenged is the strident assertion that we are a much greater risk in the home than women (especially to our own kids).

I agree that the stats provided are not exhaustive however they should be sufficient to get people who continue to assert that "men are the overwhelming majority of perpetuators of abuse and violence against women and children" to question the basis of that belief about harm to children.

The DV issue is more clouded, some appear to work from the basis that DV is gendered and then collect stats which reflect that assertion such as not collecting stats from male victims and reporting the results without pointing out that omission. As previously mentioned studies which collect stats from both genders seem not look so overwhelmingly genderised. Add some space for social factors and there appears to be almost no gender factor, just individuals of either sex who harm partners and children in the home.

R0bert, if you are trying to claim that most DV is perpetrated by women I suggest you spend some time at a women's shelter like I did the very final time my so called husband beat my face into a pulp and look into the eyes of fearful, scarred women. I am so upset I can hardly write this - you clearly don't get out much.

Being a man means taking responsibility for your actions!

I have never struck any one in my life - I don't know any women who ever have attacked their partners or their children.

GROW UP - quit bitching about women. And stand up for yourself. I am utterly fed up with the tripe in this forum. I still get headaches from the fracture I received to my skull.

Take a look at emergency rooms some Saturday night, go to womens shelters, why don't you do some volunteer work in these places?

Quoting those paltry, pointless stats when women and children are bleeding from the hands of their partners and fathers.... you ARE the problem.

Welcome Back Ringy, I see the stump is healed now :)

yes, I sympathise, I have no argument about males being more violent or aggressive, its part of the male make up. The warrior, the hunter, the protector. The more important issue is the "control" of this aspect of our humanity.

"But the fruit of the Spirit is Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Self control". <== emPHAsis on the last one.

A lot of violence comes from unfulfilled, frustrated, empty lives. Some men cannot find answers, or dont want the answers they do find, some have been scarred themselves, some are just plain ratbags.

To be a man is to recognize our manhood in its biological and psychological uniqueness, embrace it and most of all control it in a self sacrificial way for our beloved female better halves. They keep us sane and make life so much better for being a part of it with us.

Ringy, I still bear emotional scars from the Air Force, its the only thing I remember which could move me to acts of brutality against a particular individual, (now that I'm big enuf to deal with him) but, I prefer the peace of mind I spoke of above, so I don't dwell.

Lets put the stats away, stop trying to 'win an argument' and be what we are (gender wise) in all its fullness and be a part of peoples healing rather than grind against them with figures.

I would think well compiled stats are very important, as they can help eliminate base, help in determining where resources should be spent etc.

In terms of child abuse there is a recent fact sheet prepared by the AIFS at http://www.aifs.gov.au/nch/sheets/rs7.html

In the area of child sexual abuse, males predominate, although this form of child abuse constitutes less than 10% of child abuse, and the natural father is much less likely to abuse his own children than other males. In the areas of neglect and physical, emotional abuse, then men and women are about equal, and these three areas each constitute about 30% of child abuse.

An interesting observation in the area of child physical abuse, is that the male can hurt the child but unintentionally (ie underestimates his strength).

However all this goes against the often stereotypic image of the male as the perpetrator of nearly all child abuse.

In regards to male / female rates of conflict, there is the report “Australian Couples in Millennium Three” http://www.facs.gov.au/internet/facsinternet.nsf/aboutfacs/programs/families-ResearchPapers.htm that was commissioned for the Department of Families and Community Services, and compiled after extensive consultation with many other people.

It contains the following:- “The prevalence of male-to-female versus female-to-male violence is approximately equal …Furthermore, in the majority of couples in which there is physical aggression, both the man and the woman report being violent toward each other .…However, relative to female-to-male physical aggression, male-to-female physical aggression typically is more severe, more likely to lead to physical injury, and more often associated with the victim feeling fearful of their partner”

Again the rates of injury may have something to do with physical size, but the rates of aggression and violence between the genders are similar, and overall it is not just men that have to “change their ways” but equally women in nearly every aspect.

The issue of workplace can be read about in books such as “Why men earn more” http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0814472109/104-8027733-9371958?v=glance and some of the factors mentioned in that book are also becoming evident in the HILDA survey results.