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The Forum > Article Comments > WA Liberals will recriminalise homosexuality > Comments

WA Liberals will recriminalise homosexuality : Comments

By Brian Greig, published 2/2/2005

Brian Greig argues that if the Liberals win the WA election there will be a human rights roll back for gays.

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Hi Boaz,
It is accurate enough. Airlie Beach is known as “Party Town”. Locals in the surrounding area mainly go there if they have some spare cash, and want to get drunk, score some drugs and maybe find some sex.

How much of Hollywood is like that, and how much does Hollywood type culture now influence our culture, and should it become even more liberalised or accepted.
Posted by Timkins, Sunday, 6 February 2005 2:40:32 PM
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Homo au Go-Go accuses me of citing "pamplets". Actually, my info comes from homosexual researchers themselves and other professional clinicians. Militant homosexual heterophobes try to cover all this up but there own published research and surveys condemn them.

Inner conflicts:
Up until 1973, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) listed homosexuality as a psychiatric disorder in their Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Psychiatric Disorders. Their position did not change due to some original and significant research resulting in the discovery of new and compelling evidence, but by militant action by gay activists, including disruption, intimidation and threats of violence at APA meetings and conferences.

Ronald Bayer, in a work sympathetic toward homosexuality and the gay rights movement, recounts:
"Using forged credentials, gay activists gained access to the exhibit area and, coming across a display marketing aversive conditioning techniques for the treatment of homosexuals, demanded its removal. Threats were made against the exhibitor, who was told that unless his booth was dismantled, it would be torn down. After frantic behind-the-scenes consultations, and in an effort to avoid violence, the convention leadership agreed to have the booth removed." These tactics continued in the same manner at the APA’s 1972 national meeting. It was against this backdrop that the association’s trustees finally made its controversial 1973 decision. When a referendum on this was sent out to all 25,000 APA members, only a quarter of them returned their ballots. The final tally was 58% favouring the removal of homosexuality from their list of disorders. That some 3600 votes determined the policy of a professional society of some 25,000 members is no proof of general acceptance and scientific consensus. Indeed, in 1977 ten thousand members of the APA were polled at random, asking them their opinion on the 1973 decision and in an article entitled “Sick Again?” Time magazine summarized the results of the poll: “Of those answering, 69% said they believed ‘homosexuality is usually a pathological adaptation, as opposed to a normal variation,’ 18% disagreed and 13% were uncertain. Similarly, sizable majorities said that homosexuals are generally less happy than heterosexuals (73%) and less capable of mature, loving relationships (60%). A total of 70% said that homosexuals’ problems have more to do with their own inner conflicts than with stigmatization by society at large.”

Early death:
Homo is incorrect in saying that "this 'statistic' has long been revealed as fradulent." These authors examined 6,737 obituaries/death notices from eighteen U.S. homosexual journals over a period of thirteen years and compared them to obituaries from two conventional newspapers. They took into account the AIDS epidemic and distinguised between AIDS related death and other causes. Their results were published in a peer-reviewed academic journal (Omega: Journal of Death and Dying 29/3 (1994) 249-72). They conclude: "The obituaries from the non-homosexual newspapers were similar to U.S. averages for longevity: the median age of death of married men was seventy-five, 80 percent died old (65 or older); for unmarried men it was fifty-seven, 32 percent died old; for married women it was seventy-nine, 85 percent died old; for unmarried women it was seventy-one, 60 percent died old. For the 6,574 homosexual deaths, the median age of death if AIDS was the cause was thirty-nine irrespective of whether or not the individual had a Long Time Sexual Partner (LTSP), 1 percent died old. For those 829 who died of non-AIDS causes the median age of death was forty-two (41 for those 315 with a LTSP and 43 for those 514 without) and less than 9 percent died old. Homosexuals more frequently met a violent end from accidental death, traffic death, suicide, and murder than men in general. The 163 lesbians registered a median age of death of forty-four (20% died old) and exhibited high rates of violent death and cancer as compared to women in general. Old homosexuals appear to have been proportionately less numerous than their non-homosexual counterparts in the scientific literature from 1858 to 1993. The pattern of early death evident in the homosexual obituaries is consistent with the pattern exhibited in the published surveys of homosexuals and intravenous drug abusers. Homosexuals may have experienced a short lifespan for the last 140 years; AIDS has apparently reduced it about 10 percent."

In addition, homosexuals are more likely to commit suicide. This fact is also well attested in the scientific literature. See Judith M. Saunders and S. M. Valente, “Suicide risk among gay men and lesbians: A review” Death Studies 11/1 (1987) 1-23; Stephen G. Schneider and Shelley E. Taylor, “Factors influencing suicide intent in gay and bisexual suicide ideators: Differing models for men with and without human immunodeficiency virus” Journal of Personality and Social Psychology 61/5 (1991) 776-788.

ALP support for gay marriage:
Actually, you are the one who needs to get the facts right. Yes, the ALP initially said they would not support gay marriage. But when the bill was put up, they objected to the anti gay-adoption provision and it was on this basis that they agreed to send it to the Senate committee. However, when the govt offered to split the bill into 2 bills - one for marriage and one for adoption - the ALP refused to support the marriage only bill. Moreover, the date set for the Senate committee to report back was rediculously too far in the future such that it was never going to report back before the election. The ALP's plan was always to stall and then mothball the whole thing if they won the election.

AK
Posted by Aslan, Sunday, 6 February 2005 7:39:27 PM
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Homo argues: "The onus is on the opponants of same-sex marriage to identify the problems *they* predict it will bring."

Historical studies show that any departure from traditional marriage will lead to the complete breakdown of the society.

Giambattista Vico, after completing an exhaustive study of ancient history, concluded in 1725 that marriage between a man and a woman is an essential characteristic of civilization. Without strong social norms that encourage a man to direct his sexual attentions to a single woman and thereafter care for their mutual offspring, Vico concluded that chaos ensued. Marriage, he wrote, was the “seed-plot” of society. See Vico, Giambattista, The New Science, 3rd Edition, trans. by Max Harold Fisch and Thomas Goddard Bergin.

British anthropologist J. D. Unwin reached the same conclusion some 200 years later. In his 1934 book, Sex and Culture, Unwin chronicled the historical decline of 86 different cultures. His exhaustive survey revealed that “strict marital monogamy” was central to social energy and growth. Indeed, no society flourished for more than three generations without it. Unwin stated it this way: "In human records there is no instance of a society retaining its energy after a complete new generation has inherited a tradition which does not insist on prenuptial and postnuptial continence."

Unwin tried to prove that marriage was an irrelevant and even harmful cultural institution. He was forced by the evidence to conclude that only marriage with fidelity, what he called absolute monogamy, would lead to the cultural prosperity of a society. Anything else, such as “domestic partnerships,” would degrade society.

In an address to the Medical Section of the British Psychological Society in 1935, entitled “Sexual Regulations and Cultural Behavior,” he stated:
“The evidence was such as to demand a complete revision of my personal philosophy; for the relationship between the factors seemed to be so close, that, if we know what sexual regulations a society has adopted, we can prophesy accurately the pattern of its cultural behavior... (p.5).
“Now it is an extraordinary fact that in the past sexual opportunity has only been reduced to a minimum by the fortuitous adoption of an institution I call absolute monogamy. This type of marriage has been adopted by different societies, in different places, and at different times. Thousands of years and thousands of miles separate the events; and there is no apparent connection between them. In human records, there is no case of an absolutely monogamous society failing to display great [cultural] energy. I do not know of a case on which great energy has been displayed by a society that has not been absolutely monogamous…(pp.31-32).
“If, during or just after a period of [cultural] expansion, a society modifies its sexual regulations, and a new generation is born into a less rigorous [monogamous] tradition, its energy decreases... If it comes into contact with a more vigorous society, it is deprived of its sovereignty, and possibly conquered in its turn (p.21).
“It seems to follow that we can make a society behave in any manner we like if we are permitted to give it such sexual regulations as will produce the behavior we desire. The results should begin to emerge in the third generation" ( p.45).

AK
Posted by Aslan, Sunday, 6 February 2005 8:18:57 PM
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Asian,

Regards the gay way of life. Just entering “Gay + tv” into Google gives 13,600,00 results world wide, and 213,00 for Australia alone. This is rather strange for a group that apparently comprises only 1-2 % of society.

If TV programs such as "Queer as Folk" do accurately depict the gay life style, (IE a life style involving regular drug taking and promiscuous sex often between complete strangers), then is this life style something to be encouraged and advertised to others. If the gay community do not think it is an accurate portrayal of their life style, then the gay community did not seem to have done much about having programs such as Queer as Folk taken off TV.
Posted by Timkins, Sunday, 6 February 2005 11:39:31 PM
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I see the hate speech is still fueling itself. Timmy you really should get out more. As for your parroting of the uninformed F of L you should look to more informed studies that indicate the one third of men have had some homosexual event in their lives. Now there is at least three members of the right wing Christian’s on the posts here so chance are one of you has had a encounter. If you guys are going to post references to papers could you at least read them! Aslan citing Vico is a fool hardy act of a desperate man as for anthropologist J. D. Unwin well he is often used as a source for the christian right. What a joke He work was not and is not something wich the rest of his field would subscribe to in fact most described hes work as usless.
Posted by Kenny, Monday, 7 February 2005 9:53:47 AM
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Kenny,
Do you think TV programs such as Queer as Folk make for good TV veiwing?

Do you think regular drug taking and promiscuous sex makes for a sustainable society.

NB. I have no direct affiliation with any religion, political party etc. Also been in over 20 different countries and have done everything from sailing yachts to running a small farm.
Posted by Timkins, Monday, 7 February 2005 10:40:05 AM
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