The people that matter are not listing to the singer's song, which is endless and one off key note. Reminisant of nerve-jangling chalk screeching on the blackboard. Factually, HKOPs offers nothing but endless Israeli expansion. And the world knows it. If we could turn back the clock and knowing what we know now. We would have never ever agreed to the creation of the state of Israel given it has spawned creatures like this recidivist recalcitrant author.
Alan B.

War helps to keep the population down.
Disease is also a kind of war, and helps to keep the population in check.
Can we ever eliminate these, and other, natural factors?
I doubt it.
Unless we can re-program everyone to be calm and non-aggressive.
Then the population would explode, and scarcity of food would be the determining factor?
So, vast swathes of people would starve to death.
It appears we must live with what mother nature and our instincts decree, and make the best of what we have.
And planning for a peaceful future is perfectly ok.
But when two groups seek control of the same thing, there must be compromises.
And if they are too stupid to realise that, they will continue blindly until the last man falls.
Or more logical minds take over their thinking.

It could be said that David is trapped in a strange (no exit) loop from which there is no escape, or that he is trapped in a Ground Hog nightmare which repeats the same script for forever and a day.

To place the term hope into anything to do with this insanity is straight out stupidity !

To all four of you who have responded:

Please tell me what you object to in this statement made in HKOPS:
"The Palestinian problem can only be solved today if it is redefined. The issue in this day and age for people should be not so much the ownership of ancestral land but more the critical need to have a legal identity—a globally respected citizenship that allows a person to operate in the modern world. Labor in this day and age is mobile and having citizenship in a country that facilitates such mobility is critical to human development."

Then tell me what you object to in this further statement made in HKOPS:
"Jordanians and Palestinians are as similar as any people can be. They are Sunni Arabs from the same neighborhood. Merging them will not create any long-term ethnic or sectarian fault lines."

On the basis of these statements Gazans will be able to voluntarily move from the hell hole of Gaza to the newly-created Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine formed by the merger of Jordan and part of the West Bank - from one part of former Palestine to another part of former Palestine - and acquire citizenship there and end their statelessness - similar to moving from NSW to South Australia.

The Arab population of the West Bank will also acquire citizenship in the Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine, will no longer be stateless and none of them will have to leave his present home.

Is this not a solution that should be endorsed by you four commenters?

Should the Arab-Jewish conflict be continued for another 100 years when the successful implementation of this solution can end it?

Is this not a solution that should be endorsed by you four commenters?
David singer,
The whole world except the Arab-Jewish world endorses a solution as far as I can go by the evidence before me.

An imposed from without and unwanted solution, is not the answer.

If the Palestinians were consulted and asked if they wanted HKOP. And if after due consideration and widespread consultation, it could be put to a vote? It may be worth looking at?

You steal their land, homes and business in an illegal land grab. And then you want to ratify that land grab with HKOP?

I can't blame a subjugated peoples for looking at this "proposal" with extreme suspicion.
Alan B.

The Singer article is on the money. This really is the only option available to resolve the running sore that is the Palestinian grievances.

The problem is that it isn't currently viable. While ever the Palestinians and their allies think that they can win it all from the river to the sea, they will resist any compromise that gives them less than that. Despite what is happening in Gaza just now, they continue to hold hope of final victory on their terms ie all Jews in the Levant either killed of expelled.

When the Abraham Accords were close to fulfillment, there was a chance the Palestinian leadership would finally be bought to reality by having the Saudis et al make plain their withdrawal of support for the jihad against the Jewish Homeland. But the Biden regime killed the Abraham Accords and until they are revived by less ideological minds, they will remain on the back-burner.

So by all means, the HKOPS should remain on the table awaiting a time when the Palestinian leadership finally realises it must accept a Jewish state in the Levant. But who knows when that'll be.

I can only respond in this way.

To have a worthwhile goal is laudable?
To plan carefully to reach that goal is laudable?
But, the attitude of those fighting this 'war' is wrong?
By that I mean the leaders driving this conflict.
Instinct leads them to fixate on an unrealistic end.
They become like a dog with a bone.
They won't listen to reason.
They could stop if they wanted to, but instinct drives them on.

Wanting peace is one thing.
Working towards it is desirable.
But look around you.
In practice, war is continual on this planet.
And a major change of mind is not likely in the present situation?
However, there MUST to be major change by at least one of the 'combatants'.
One side needs to lead by reason, instead of being mired in senseless conflict?

Jewish people were unfairly persecuted during the second world war.
They garnered lots of 'brownie points' because of that?
In my humble opinion, they are using them up fast.
If they want to change this dramatic trend, they need to lead instead of thrashing around in a charnel house.
Stop the fighting, and work towards a compromise solution.
Use reason, and accept the result of reasoned discussion.
There are children dying out there.
It is time to step back and think about this?
Whatever has happened in the past, more killing won't make the anything better in the future?

Dear Mhaze,

«When the Abraham Accords were close to fulfillment, there was a chance the Palestinian leadership would finally be bought to reality by having the Saudis et al make plain their withdrawal of support for the jihad against the Jewish Homeland.»

The Palestinian leadership brought to reality?
What possible interest have they in that?
So what if they are unable to rout out "the Jews"?
Let me whisper in your ear that they don't even want to!
Should "the Jews" be eliminated, how could they sustain the perpetual state of war
and keep their "Palestinian" people subjugated?

I saw today an article about the unbelievable lavish lifestyle of Hamas leaders and their families. Unfortunately I could not yet find the English equivalent of http://www.ynet.co.il/economy/article/yokra13724118
The article describes how while Gazans are starving, their leaders overseas are busy with car-races and parties and buy palaces in Malaysia with multi-millions stolen Iranian money intended for the "Palestinian" people.

From that article, here is a suitcase with 5 million shekels (over 2 million Australian dollars) discovered by the IDF in the Gazan house of one of Ismail Hanieh's sons: http://ynet-pic1.yit.co.il/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto/picserver5/crop_images/2023/12/19/BJlO7EO1D6/BJlO7EO1D6_0_481_1063_1595_0_x-large.jpg
That suitcase also contains receipts for jewellery purchased for $1,000s, an average of a Gazan 2-year average salary per piece.

While most of the world concentrates on Israel and "the Jews", be it for or against them, Arabs have other issues on their mind, including their various internal feuds.

HKOPS seems to have been born by one of these Arab internal feuds and its author incidentally uses the "Israel-Palestinian war" just as a pretext for destroying his hated Hashemite kingdom of Jordan (by flooding it with hostile "Palestinians"). Why destroy Jordan? well it could even be an internal family feud: could even King Abdullah's ambitious half-brother, Hamzah, be behind it?

#Indyvidual

Problem is the two-state solution has produced no outcome for at least 20 years. Keep banging your head against a brick wall for it to happen if that is your wish.

The Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine solution offers a new approach:
"The Palestinian problem can only be solved today if it is redefined. The issue in this day and age for people should be not so much the ownership of ancestral land but more the critical need to have a legal identity—a globally respected citizenship that allows a person to operate in the modern world." Too difficult for you to get your sore head around?

HKOP offers citizenship and an end to statelessness for Gazan and West Bank Arabs. You obviously prefer them to remain stateless and under Israeli occupation - rather than citizens of HKOP.

Enjoy bashing whatever brain you have left.

#Alan B
The leader of your "subjugated peoples" - Mahmoud Abbas - has not spoken one word rejecting HKOP and the fact it will be governed by the Hashemites - not the PLO - in the 18 months since its publication.

#mhaze
HKOP has not been raised or mentioned once in the UN since its publication 18 months ago. The UN is in love with the two-state solution laid out in UNSCR 2334 - which has gone nowhere in the last seven years following its adoption in 2016.

The Arab League is in love with the two-state solution it proposed as Arab Peace Initiative in 2002 - that has also gone nowhere in 21 years.

The UN is threatening world peace by refusing to consider HKOP. Had it started to do so before October 7 as I was begging it to do - maybe the horrific events of October 7 and the subsequent Israel-Gaza War could have been avoided.

Things are getting far worse by the day and UN still refuses to discuss HKOP. This is shameful and needs to be called out every day the UN does not start debating HKOP as a possible solution to end 100 years of conflict between Arabs and Jews.

If recent reports are any near true, things are about to change dramatically....

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/exclusive-secret-arab-plan-oust-palestinian-leader-abbas

http://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1739052007166488820

Yuyutsu asks why the Palestinian leadership would change their minds or attitudes to the whole shemozzle. The point is the current leadership never will. But that doesn't mean the current leadership can't be changed to a new junta that is much more amenable to reaching peace with the Jewish state.

David Singer writes:" UN still refuses to discuss HKOP. "

I don't think the UN is relevant in this situation. Whatever solution is finally reached, if a solution is reached, will be done over the heads of the UN.

Stupidity can not be legislated particularly when it has been inbred for millennia.

Obliging Jordan to accept additional millions may work for an expansionist Israel, but not the Palestinians forced off their ancestral homelands.

Neither the UN nor Biden show any interest in HKOP, knowing as most of the world, it's not now nor never to be a viable solution. Whereas a two-state solution could be renegotiated with Biden as the sponsor? HKOP is liked by just a few dictatorial men, but not those that count.

Mr Singer, you need to sing a different song. I like many of the readers, find the endless repetition of your proposal, unpalatable in the extreme. Time warp, ground hog day, is the best description of your new land grab scheme?
Alan B.

If there was ever any hope of peace, it would have been achieved by now. Arabs, Palestinians - Muslims as a whole - just want to kill Jews. Online knowalls waffling on, all mouth and no responsibility, won't make a skerrik of difference.

You have to be pretty damn dumb not to realise that after nearly 80 years!

" Online knowalls waffling on, all mouth and no responsibility, won't make a skerrik of difference."

And yet here you are ttbn.

Dear Alan,

«Obliging Jordan to accept additional millions may work for an expansionist Israel, but not the Palestinians forced off their ancestral homelands.»

For Jordan to suicidally accept these millions of hostile "Palestinians" or even just some of them, would spell the end of Jordan, which in turn would also spell the end of Israel.

As for the "Palestinians", those in the Diaspora since only they may survive the aftermath of the destruction of Israel, I am not sure that returning to their "homeland", now a radioactive wasteland, would be much fun.

And yet here you are ttbn.
Mhaze,
You’re not getting the gist of things. ttbn is not “waffling on” about solutions as do many others. He is merely telling them that there can never be a “solution” to that problem.

No he's asserting that talkfests like this won't solve anything (as if anyone thinks it will) and asserting its a waste of time - while participating in the talkfest.

There seems to have been plan after plan after plan all of which have
been rejected or failed for one reason or another.
For 1400 years Islam has been spreading around the world not by peaceful
means but by migration war or terrorism.
It is now rife in Africa by killing Christians by the tens of thousands.
Why should Islamists abandon a method that hs been so successful.
The terrorism method has been stalled in Europe as their numbers are
not at high enough percentage. They remember what happened in France
when Charles Martel defeated the moslem army in the 8th century..
Charles Martel gained a very consequential victory against an Umayyad
invasion of Aquitaine at the Battle of Tours.
If he had failed the French would suffered the same fate as the Spanish.
NB the Umayyad was an Islamic Caliphate based in the ME,
Read up the history of Islamic migration and takeover.
How else but by a war can this trend be stopped once and for all.

Just had a thought, perhaps the governments new legislation will deem
my post to be misinformation. Will you visit me at Long Bay ?

So much passion for a couple of thousand Palestinians but not even a
mention of who killed the 50,000 Christians in Nigeria !
Not even the information that the killers are moslems.
No mention of the number of churches burnt down and their parishioners
murdered while celebrating Christmas.
The protesting pro Islamic crowds do not even know about it !
This is not just our local media, it is a world wide shush shush;
"that is Islamaphobia, tut tut" !

What bloody hypocrites !

#mhaze

You state:
"David Singer writes:" UN still refuses to discuss HKOP. "

I don't think the UN is relevant in this situation. Whatever solution is finally reached, if a solution is reached, will be done over the heads of the UN"

I respectfully disagree.

The UN has been involved in brokering a solution to the 100 years-old Jewish-Arab conflict since it began operating on 25 October 1945.

Central to the UN's involvement is Article 80 of the UN Charter which preserves the rights vested in the Jewish people to reconstitute the Jewish National Home in Judea and Samaria (West Bank) and Gaza under articles 6 and 25 of the 1922 League of Nations Mandate for Palestine.

The UN has been acting in breach of article 80 since the Security Council adopted Resolution 2334 on 23 December 2016 which:
"1. Reaffirms that the establishment by Israel of settlements in the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem, has no legal validity and constitutes a flagrant violation under international law and a major obstacle to the achievement of the two-State solution and a just, lasting and comprehensive peace;
2. Reiterates its demand that Israel immediately and completely cease all settlement activities in the occupied Palestinian territory, including East Jerusalem, and that it fully respect all of its legal obligations in this regard;"

These assertions are false and the UN is acting illegally in making them in violation of Article 80.

Whilst the UN denies Jews have the right to reconstitute the Jewish National Home in the land located "from the River to the Sea" - the UN will be the centre of Jew-hatred sweeping the world. HKOPS recognises these legally-vested Jewish rights by calling for the division of Judea and Samaria (West Bank) between Israel and the newly merged territorial entity to be called The Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine.

The sooner HKOPS is discussed in the Security Council- the better. HKOPS cannot remain buried as the region descends into ever-increasing conflict and rampant Jew-hatred increases world-wide.

Do you notice that this opinion piece is talking about who will own and operate the territory of Gaza once Israel decides their war of death and destruction is over? This approach ignores the right of territories to self-determination in the post colonial period. The same kind of colonial attitude was expressed in 1975 in relation to the future of another similar-sized territory, Portuguese Timor at our doorstep. It was decided by the Whitlam government to hand the territory over to Indonesia without consulting the people of East Timor as to what they wanted. This led to untold suffering, death and destruction in East Timor for many uears until finally a referendum on self-determination was held and independence achieved with the help of the UN in 2002. And so it goes, the ideas put forward in this opinion piece by Mike Kelly and Anthony Bergin will not lead to the end of resistance from the traumatised, suffering and enraged people of Gaza. What will finally end the wicked Palestinian problem is regime change in Israel. This could come about by conviction of the regime by the International Court of Justice, for genocide in Gaza. Just as Communism and the Soviet Union collapsed in 1993, and Apartheid collapsed in South Africa a year later, so Zionism and the occupation of Gaza and the West bank needs to collapse in 2024. A new democratic Greater Israel or Greater Palestine needs to emerge wherin Jews, Christians and Moslems will live in peace under a new constitution that rejects Zionism, that is a form of colonialism and racism. That is the right side of history. A "two state solution" won't happen. Netanyahu and the Likud party are Zionist and so dedicated to Greater Israel from the River Jordan to the Sea. The Arabs need to be expelled or die first. In hindsight, the root cause of the existing problem was the partition of Palestine in 1947 by a narrow vote in the UN. The solution to the problem is to de-Partition Palestine.

«so Zionism and the occupation of Gaza and the West bank needs to collapse in 2024»

Zionism ended in 1948,
the occupation of Gaza ended in 2005,
the occupation of the West Bank will hopefully end soon too.

«A "two state solution" won't happen. Netanyahu and the Likud party are Zionist and so dedicated to Greater Israel from the River Jordan to the Sea.»

Netanyahu and the Likud party are not Zionist - they ruin everything Zionism ever created.
Yes, they are dedicated to "Greater Israel", but they are on their way out.
A survey from 4 days ago (21.1.2024) shows that if elections were to be held today in Israel, then Likud would get exactly half their present seats: 16 instead of 32!

If a "two-state solution" won't happen, then there could be 3 main reasons for having one, three or four states instead:
1) Because the "Palestinians" don't want a state of their own - they want to resume being part of Greater Syria.
2) Because Israel won't remain one state: just prior to October 7th it was on the verge of splitting: only the present war still holds it together, temporarily.
3) Because the people of Gaza and the people of the West-Bank are in different situations and have different mentalities: they too wouldn't like to live together under the same rule.

«The solution to the problem is to de-Partition Palestine.»

Have you ever been divorced?
Remember those fun times, not a boring moment - arguments, domestic violence, police, courts, injunctions, lawyers...

- There you go: getting you back to live with your EX can really help solving the Australian housing crisis!

#smokehouse

You incorrectly state: "In hindsight, the root cause of the existing problem was the partition of Palestine in 1947 by a narrow vote in the UN."

The first partition of Palestine took place in 1946 - when the 78% of Palestine east of the Jordan River - where no Jews then lived - was granted independence by the Mandatory Power - Great Britain - and renamed the Hashemite Kingdom of Transjordan.

The 1947 partition that you refer to was proposed in respect of the remaining 22% of Palestine west of the Jordan River - where both Jews and Arabs were then living. The Jews reluctantly accepted that UN partition plan - even though it denied them the right to reconstitute the Jewish National Home in any part of the territory of Palestine west of the Jordan River under articles 6 and 25 of the 1922 League of Nations Mandate for Palestine - preserved by article 80 of the United Nations Charter.

The Arabs rejected this 1947 UN partition resolution and sent six Arab armies from six Arab states into Western Palestine to ensure the Jews received nothing. They did not succeed - but Transjordan seized control of the West Bank and East Jerusalem unifying them with Transjordan to form the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in 1950.

This situation is what is again being offered by the 2022 Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine solution (HKOPS) - albeit in a smaller area than existed between 1948 and 1967 - because this latest plan calls for the West Bank to be divided between Israel and Jordan.

HKOPS is now the key to ending more than 100 years of conflict between Arabs and Jews in former Palestine. Successfully implementing HKOPS will see the Arabs sovereign in about 80% of former Palestine - with the Jews sovereign in the remaining 20%.

Negotiations to implement HKOPS have become more urgent following Gaza's invasion of Israel on 7 October 2023,the ensuing unresolved Israel-Gaza War and the risk of widened conflict threatening to involve Israel, Jordan, the West Bank, Lebanon, Syria and possibly Iran.