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The Forum > Article Comments > Roth confounds UN, USA & Australia: Two-State solution 'is gone' > Comments

Roth confounds UN, USA & Australia: Two-State solution 'is gone' : Comments

By David Singer, published 4/11/2022

Kenneth Roth, recently retired Executive Director of Human Rights Watch, has undermined the continuation of the policy espoused by the UN, USA and Australia for the last 20 years supporting the the creation of a new Palestinian Arab State.

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There’s an urgent need for the return of Trump in the world.

The US is out of control. While it uses the Palestinian question as a red herring, the most dangerous issue of cuddling up to Iran moves forwards quietly; and I use the term quietly as a figure of speech, since US sponsored Hesbola rockets roaring into Israel are not silent.

Dan
Posted by diver dan, Friday, 4 November 2022 8:25:09 AM
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A one state solution with equal rights for all its citizens and a democratic state replacing a Jewish state might end the conflict. The new state could have separation of religion and state as any democratic state should have. I am a Jew who lives in Australia. I am glad Australia is not a Christian state but a state for all ts citizens. I see no reason why Israel cannot become a democracy, have an integrated school system and civil marriage. A Jewish state like a Buddhist, Christian, Hindu or Muslim state is an anachronism in a democratic world.
Posted by david f, Friday, 4 November 2022 8:28:11 AM
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There cannot be a "two-state solution" because there cannot be any solution.

There cannot be any solution because there is no problem to begin with.

For the same reason, this Saudi plan which the author lauds would not solve anything either.
- but it would result, among other things, in the destruction of Israel.

There is no "Israeli-Palestinian" conflict because there are no "Palestinians".

Those native Arabs who tactically call themselves "Palestinians" never wanted a state of their own, nor do they want to be part of Israel, nor of Jordan. They were offered a state in the past and refused, because that would defeat their purpose - and should they be offered to become part of Israel and/or Jordan, that is not what they want either but then they would verbally/tactically accept the offer and use the opportunity to undermine these two countries from within.

What they want, what they wanted all along, is to become part of Greater Syria again. While presenting themselves as "Palestinians" for international consumption, they see themselves as Southern-Syrians, who never accepted the defeat of the Ottoman empire in world-war I and the subsequent division of Syria between the British and the French.

Even with the best of goodwill, they obviously cannot be given what they really want because Syria today is not an independent country, but a vassal state of Iran and Russia.

Now should the Saudi scheme be accepted, that would make the day for Iran and Russia: these Southern-Syrians will take over Jordan and hand it to Syria, Russian and Iranian forces would then enter Jordan and treat the Jordanians exactly like the Russians treat the Ukrainian civilians in the areas they occupy, then they will turn to Israel over its long eastern border and shred it to pieces, dumping its population in the Mediterranean sea, including 7 million Jews - yes, all this would happen if the author could get his way.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 4 November 2022 8:40:11 AM
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Why is the author avoiding the Israeli crisis of the moment, that is "Bibi" NETANYAHU back in power?!
Posted by Maverick, Friday, 4 November 2022 8:43:40 AM
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Now, I expect the usual suspects to use this platform to condemn Israel.

Yes, Israel's despicable behaviour towards ordinary civilian native Southern-Syrian Arabs should be improved because it undermines Israel's morality.
Yes, Israel's occupation of the territories it took in 1967 which corrupt it from within, should end.

However, these are internal Israeli problems that are unrelated to the "problem" the author is attempting to solve, thus I beg you to keep these two discussions separate.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 4 November 2022 8:50:38 AM
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There is no solution. Were I an Israeli - Jew, Muslim, Christian, or no religion at all, I would be relieved to have Netenyahu back.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 4 November 2022 9:13:12 AM
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Who in Israel is opposing their National or rather, military Service ? My bet is on the proven soldiers of disunity, the Lefties who beat for the forces for protection !
Posted by Indyvidual, Friday, 4 November 2022 10:18:58 AM
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Ex- something, has-been, Roth's verbal opinions are not worth the paper they're written on.

Singer is, I believe, like a drowning man clutching at straws in his personal effort to sabotage the two-state solution, which by the way is still on the table and the only solution with a snowflakes chance in hell of success!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Friday, 4 November 2022 10:29:19 AM
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Just as what are now Americans there are now Palestinians. Before the American Revolution there were no Americans. English colonists became Americans forging their identity in their struggle against England. Both Yuyutsu and Singer deny the Palestinian identity. To Yuyutsu they are South Syrians. To Singer they should be part of Jordan. Their identity has been forged in their opposition to Jewish Israel as the identity of Americans was forged in their opposition to England. Palestinians now exist. This is a reality that Yuyutsu and Singer deny. Acknowledge the reality and deal with it.
Posted by david f, Friday, 4 November 2022 10:31:14 AM
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Dear David F.,

On the side, this "identity" thing is total rubbish.
Looking at the OED, there are two definitions:
1) the fact of being who or what a person or thing is.
2) a close similarity or affinity.

Calling oneself a new name neither change who or what you are nor makes you similar to others.

On topic: the Americans took proactive actions to be independent of England and grabbed their independence the moment they could.

The so-called "Palestinians" on the other hand, when offered independence and sovereignty over 97% of the West Bank and 100% of Gaza, including having the Jewish settlers removed, when they discovered that negotiations with Israel (with Ehud Barak as prime-minister) are going "too well", that they might actually get what they verbally asked for thus have their "Palestinian" facade torn off, they literally turned around, got into their cars and left in a convoy without giving any explanation.

The bitter and depressing result of their betrayal of the good faith of the Israeli peace camp, we just saw again this last Tuesday - the tragic election of criminal Netanyahu, the complete elimination of the Meretz peace party and decimation of Israeli Labor to just 4 MK's.

I wish we could put this to the test again and I wish I am found wrong.
I pray for Israel to leave all the territories it took in 1967 and should my prayers be answered, let's see whether the locals actually declare a "Palestinian" state. I believe they won't and I believe that they would be quite upset for having their big lie exposed. I believe that they are and always were, loyal Syrian citizens who only play the "poor Palestinians" as a smart tactic.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 4 November 2022 1:56:27 PM
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Curious. The one ‘Arab’ state to proffer an admittedly complex solution(?) pathway(?) to addressing an Arab problem is totally ignored. The hubris of the US, the EU and the UN is truly breathtaking.
Posted by Pete S, Friday, 4 November 2022 3:55:27 PM
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Yuyutsu

Palestinians are Iranian stooges. As you point out in your confusion, it’s all about harassing Israeli not about peace plans and solution to Arab disruptions. A policy of harassment is the end game.
The broader aim is to divide the West along the line of conservative V liberal progressives.(Rainbow flags).

Israel has a need to redesign their idea of Democracy; an impossible mix with a religious Jewish State.
And since they share the same God with Islamists and Christians, chances of a more stable ME will more likely win out.

The problem is not Jewishness but Secularism; so hopefully Ben Gvir’s radicle Zionism will push Israel in that direction.

Dan
Posted by diver dan, Friday, 4 November 2022 8:26:11 PM
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There's a lot of C.R.A.P. appearing here with no bearing whatsoever on the question or the solution. Why can't the willfully blind just get out of the way and or take their totally irrelevant personal WHF rainbow agendas of the table.

A two-state solution is the only solution that's on the table that PLO will consider as viable. Just as the Jewish diaspora need to have a homeland to call their own so also do the other sons and daughters of Abraham, their Palestinian genetic cousins!

The Palestinians also long to have their illegally occupied homeland returned in a negotiated settlement. Which is pushed ever further away with the return of Netanyahu!

What we need to see the end of this BS is the end of all dependance on fossil fuels! And push aside all the tiny minority that want to force their personal, rivers of gold, carbon creating, energy options on the rest of the world.

Cheap reliable energy, (carbon free) MSR thorium, would make the desalination of seawater a viable economic option for broadscale irrigated agriculture! And create food security for Israelis and Palestinians alike. And end the need to annex more and more illegally occupied Palestinian land!

Roth, Singer and co., need to F.O. They don't and will never ever help with their, I believe, endless obfuscation and mendacious disingenuity.
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Saturday, 5 November 2022 11:05:31 AM
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Dear Dan,

«The broader aim is to divide the West along the line of conservative V liberal progressives.(Rainbow flags).»

You did not make yourself clear: who's aim? Iranian? "Palestinian"? Yours?
And why would that be? What's the benefit?

«And since they share the same God with Islamists and Christians, chances of a more stable ME will more likely win out.»

Excuse me - is there anyone else, anywhere, with whom we do not share the same God? Was there anyone like that ever? Could there ever be someone like that?

«The problem is not Jewishness but Secularism; so hopefully Ben Gvir’s radicle Zionism will push Israel in that direction.»

Israel's problem is that it includes such diverse populations which have practically nothing in common, no common goals, no common vision - somehow they historically got stuck to each other and they all feel trapped.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Saturday, 5 November 2022 9:29:29 PM
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Yuyutsu

I laugh out loud LOL at this one.

You tell me in the end, it’s the multicultural make up of Israel “THE” problem.

Well what you describe is the West under liberalism, with open borders and a miss match of cultures, a comparable negative situation to Israel.
Exactly what I said, but said differently.

What some Israeli radicals are calling for (as an ambit claim I suspect), is the expulsion from Israel, all non Jewish inhabitants.

I agree that stand is an honest one. I mean, I don’t have time or space to write a thesis on my ideas in my previous post above, but I gave you credit for the ability to judge the context of what I meant in its brevity.

It gets down to this. Israel was always to be a haven for Jewish people from wherever they may have come from, as a refuge.
It would be one of the very few to qualify legitimately as a multicultural community, built on that dream.
There is room for radicalism.

Dan
Posted by diver dan, Saturday, 5 November 2022 9:50:35 PM
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Dear Dan,

Yes, there is a room for radicalism, but not when it causes suffering for others.

What I believe in, is territorial compromise: when cultures are so incompatible that people suffer, the land ought to be divided, as much as required so that everyone can live only with those with whom they have some basic agreement. Everyone means everyone!

The main reasons this is not happening are greed and jealousy. I do not support either.

"So Abram said to Lot, “Let’s not have any quarreling between you and me, or between your herders and mine, for we are close relatives. Is not the whole land before you? Let’s part company. If you go to the left, I’ll go to the right; if you go to the right, I’ll go to the left.”" [Genesis 13:8-9]
Posted by Yuyutsu, Saturday, 5 November 2022 10:22:58 PM
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Pete S

Biden is a complete puppet for Obama. It’s Obamas failed policies pre Trump, propelling the Middle East into a catastrophe that has dangerously effected the security of Israel and Saudi Arabia, and forced a bear hug for survival against Iranian sponsored rocket and drone attacks from Yemen and Lebanon. Both those failed States are vassals of Iran.

But yet, the US, in a bid to realign itself in the ME with Iran, has effectively abandoned trusted allies.
(A long story).

We in Australia should take note of the treachery of US and it’s shifting of policy at a whim in the ME, that ignores allied security, when dealing with them.

We need Trump back in the White House urgently. for the sake of peace.

Dan.
Posted by diver dan, Saturday, 5 November 2022 10:57:41 PM
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Yuyutsu

Yuyutsu I agree, twd, be good if the world had the propensity for peace, but alas!

To use the Bible to prove any concept of peace is fraught with the dangers of interpretation.
The two prophetic books of Ezekiel and Daniel, and Enoch to a more controversial end, all predicted a coming messiah: But who and what was his ultimate standing, was a vexed point of contention.
The son of man. The prince of peace. Unfortunately the mayhem over that controversy is exactly where and why Israel stands, still in the midst of controversy with its Arab neighbours, and at times with its Christian brothers. Except of course with its brothers, the Christian Zionists in the US; the Donald Trump supporters.

From any view from Israel, it’s future is confused. Who are its friends? Certainly not the Democrats who are rabidly anti Zionists.

Dan
Posted by diver dan, Sunday, 6 November 2022 7:19:45 AM
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Trump again!? You can't be serious! Hopefully he will run out of legal wriggle room and donations soon, and simply face judgement for his, I believe, many crimes/frauds.

A strikingly divisive and totally immoral, pussy grabbing Trump works with the support of those people one can fool all of the time! (Morons and or, birds of a feather) And has left in his wake a huge plethora of ruined bankrupted family businesses.

Has no redeeming features whatsoever! Will face ultimate judgement soon as he is not a young man or in good health. Ditto for his Russian mate Putin.
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Sunday, 6 November 2022 11:04:57 AM
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