The religion question was the only non-compulsory question in the census. And yes, people who skipped it are that lazy; others think that they are not Christian because they don't attend church, or they are not perfect. Others think it is not anyone else's business - especially not Big Brother's.

There is far too much being read into this, mainly by the Marxists.

I grew up a Seventh Day Adventist. They used to quote Revelation 3:16 (KJV) "So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." (and I read Pilgrims Progress in High School). I would now describe myself as an atheist, so agree with the central premise of your argument - if you don't have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ you shouldn't tick a Christian religion on the census.

Whether of not the census is God's clarrion call to evangelical Christians, I'll have to leave to believers.

(PS: Using the word "harping" when describing an argument you don't like is pretty patronising and not very good evangelism...)

But is Christian-ism in any sense true? Which of course it is not.

Christian-ism because it is primarily an ideology based on a set of half-baked ideas about what we are as human beings, the nature of the natural world, and the nature of Reality Itself.
Ideas which are essentially God-less and based on an entirely separative mis-understanding of the above three themes as described in this essay:
http://www.beezone.com/beezones-main-stack/three_great_myths_questioned.html

These essays provide a comprehensive critique of the self-serving ideas at the root of the kind of naive institutional religiosity that the author promotes:
http://www.dabase.org/up-1-6.htm Narcissus
Elaborations of Narcissus which is another name for sinners and the fact that sinners inevitably create hell-on-earth http://www.beezone.com/narcissus.html
http://www.dabase.org/up-5-2.htm
http://dabase.org/up-1-1.htm
http://www.dabase.org/up-1-2.htm

What did Saint Jesus of Galilee actually teach and demonstrate while he was alive - the "resurrection" of course did not happen.
http://www.dabase.org/up-5-1.htm
http://www.dabase.org/up-6.htm

When people ticked, no religion, it did not mean what Spencer claims, i.e., no religious belief or no belief in a true God!

All they were indicating was no organized religious membership. Simply put one does not need to go to a church to worship God, in fact far better placed to carry that conviction and conversation with God, by staying away and keeping his or her plate money in his or her pocket.

And or choosing who and when to help with Christian charity rather than some gold and satin bedecked, pulpit pounding imposter?

A job for life with a house, a car, food, health care and free booze thrown in? And lots of tea and cake as you make your weekly rounds?

No thanks Spencer, you go get a real job and pay your own way like everybody else and don't bother God until he calls for your service and fair dinkum truth telling in his name!
Alan B.

Of course it should have been the church leaders who were ticking 'no religion'. They are the ones who have sold out to the Marxist/Woke culture.

I agree with Anthony’s point, that Spencer tends to attack people he disagrees with using insults not arguments. Stripped of prejudicial language, all the opening paragraphs of his article boil down to is this – atheists and rationalists are pointing to the decline in religious affiliation recorded in the census as a reason to reduce the privileged position of Christianity in parts of our public life. I find this neither surprising nor unreasonable. And Spencer’s argument that “My experience is that few secularists are prepared to admit this freedom to believe whatever they choose came from God” is entirely circular and self-referential. Of course they will not “admit” this.

As a practicing (non-evangelical Anglican) Christian I think there is much food for though in the recent census data, and like Spencer I don’t think it’s necessarily all bad news. But sneering at, and misrepresenting, the views of the non-religious is hardly a constructive response.

Anthony,

Since you grew up as an SDA with the message of the threat of lukewarmness coming (Revelation 3:16), are you free to share what caused your lukewarmness and then movement to become an atheist?

I commend you for acknowledging the cure for the lukewarmness is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Thank you for drawing to my attention that the use of the word, "harping," is pejorative and does not support efforts at good evangelism.

Thanks OzSpen for the invite. I grew up playing piano - platying was my entire experience of church. My musical tastes started to diverge from those of the congregation (a kind way of saying I wanted a little more life in the music), so I got to sit in the audience and listen for the first time. What I heard from the pulpit didn't make any sense to me. I saw a theology that claimed the Bible was absolutely true, yet there are thousands of contradictions. I backed that up with a science degree where perfectly acceptable descriptions of where we came from and why we are like we are convinced me I didn't need religion as the explanation.

Fond memories, the smell of fresh fruit, flowers at harvest thanksgiving. Sunday school picnics, Christmas parties, Girl Guides and a good start in life. The basics still with me although I don't attend church now, and someone, somewhere has been good to me. Just watch a snowdrop appearing through snow.

Ps
I marked myself Christian in census.

Anthony,

<<I backed that up with a science degree where perfectly acceptable descriptions of where we came from and why we are like we are convinced me I didn't need religion as the explanation>>

So you lost confidence in the authority of Scripture. Did anyone provide you with evidence that can be found in books such as:

+ Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties, Gleason L. Archer (Regency Reference Library, Zondervan).

+ Hard Sayings of the Bible, Walter C. Kaiser Jr., Peter H. Davids, F. F. Bruce, and Manfred T. Brauch (InterVarsity Press).

+ There are other such books by Norman Geisler.

I also have a science background with an MA in counselling psychology.

I've found the biblical explanation of human beings 'made in the image of God' (Genesis 1:27) to fit the nature of human beings as opposed to animals. 'Some understand image of God to mean those qualities that make us human, for example: possessing a soul, higher-order reasoning, self-consciousness, consciousness of God and the ability to have a relationship with him. This seems like a good definition, since only humans are in God’s image and these are qualities that make us human.'

<<I saw a theology that claimed the Bible was absolutely true, yet there are thousands of contradictions.>> I find this comment to be a figure of speech - a hyperbole - when you gave not even one or a few examples.

There are millions of Muslims who don't have the faith but they do & have to consider themselves Muslim because they share a common vision & goal unlike stupid, greedy Christians !

Indy,

<<unlike stupid, greedy Christians !>>

You have used an Ad Hominem (Abusive) logical fallacy, which is erroneous reasoning. We cannot have a rational conversation when you use this illogical approach.

which is erroneous reasoning
OzSpen,
Is it really ? From my perspective I see Muslims sticking to their doctrine even if they hate each other. Christians on the other hand forsake their faith mainly through selfishness & selfishness orientated indoctrination. Muslims are building their numbers whilst silly Christians don't.
When you consider that Western countries which are largely Christian based, are reducing their numbers of Christians then think about 30 years or less ahead where western fixation with Democracy will be ?

Spencer Gear writes: "We need to make it clear what will replace this breakdown of religion."

The increasing displacement of religion is not a problem for which "we" must find a replacement. "Physician heal thyself", or more simply put: "correct the faults in yourself before attempting to correct them in others." There are copious free and penetrating treatments within psychology before launching into the free and penetrating lessons in science. Herein is found the true grandeur and beauty of existence. We will discover its source soon enough and our curiosity grows keener with the pursuit.

"'Census results mean religions should stop getting special treatment.' Why should minority groups refuse to receive special treatment?"

I'm surprised you bothered with twisting these statistics. If a car kills a pedestrian should all cars be banned? Not all minority groups are equal and nor are they all more or less deserving or undeserving. Nor would minority groups refuse public funds or other special treatment, but they may be deprived of those benefits against their wishes if they discriminate against whom they treat or deal with. What prompted your oblique wording re refusal unless it was to explain away religious discrimination?

Monday 4 July 2022

Ozspen, it has been years since I spent any time at all in this kind of discussion. I used to be a very evangelical athiest, but have grown to be completely fine with people doing what people do.

Contradictions in the bible - here is a lifetimes entertainment for you. http://www.lyingforjesus.org/Bible-Contradictions/

grown to be completely fine with people doing what people do.
Anthony Bishop,
Generally, that's my philosophy too but, yes the old but, when people do as they please which then adversely affects others then my philosophy does an instant 180. In my time as a victim of crime i found to my own surprise that I'm less upset with the perpetrators than with the sickening mentality of people in authority. There are times when the people in authority literally present more criminal tendencies than some of the perpetrators before them. Many of them cowering behind religion.

Anthony,

<<Contradictions in the bible - here is a lifetimes entertainment for you. http://www.lyingforjesus.org/Bible-Contradictions/>>

They have been answered many times over in the reference books I provided in a previous post. Old Testament scholar, Dr. Gleason L. Archer Jr., wrote in The Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties: "As I have dealt with one apparent discrepancy after another and have studied the alleged contradictions between the biblical record and the evidence of linguistics, archaeology, or science, my confidence in the trustworthiness of Scripture has been repeatedly verified and strengthened by the discovery that almost every problem in Scripture that has ever been discovered by man, from ancient times until now, has been dealt with in a completely satisfactory manner by the biblical text itself-or else by archaeological information" (p. 12).

I'm confident the alleged "lying for Jesus" quotes in your link can be satisfactorily resolved. A secular source, The Huffington Post, in an article in 2018, "2,500 Year Old Jewish Tablets Discovered in Iraq," concluded: "This discovery is a remarkable confirmation of the historical reliability of the Biblical text," https://www.huffingtonpost.com/simcha-jacobovici/2500-year-old-jewish-tabl_b_6579996.html.

Dear Ttbn,

«The religion question was the only non-compulsory question in the census. And yes, people who skipped it are that lazy;»

So you think I am lazy...

Well, I consider this whole census thing a gross insult and invasion of my privacy. Obviously I wouldn't answer any question that isn't compulsory (nor answer any compulsory question correctly if I can get away with it).

There you go, when China takes over Australia and digs up the census information, at least I've got a chance to escape once they send all other Hindus to the gas chambers.

Yuyutsu,

Worse is yet to come. Jesus told his disciples: "‘Tell us,’ they said, ‘when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?’ Jesus answered: ‘Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, “I am the Messiah,” and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumours of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth-pains.

‘Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people" (Matthew 24:4-11 NIV).

Dear Spencer,

Indeed, so I presume this is why you won't disclose your Christianity in the census - China does not accept any religion except the worship of their leader as "God", just like the Pharaohs in older times.

Yuyutsu,

<<Indeed, so I presume this is why you won't disclose your Christianity in the census>>

From where did you get that information. I most certainly disclosed my Christianity in the census.

Dear Spencer,

Sorry I have been wrong:

The thread opened with this question of presumably-lazy people not answering the religion-question of the census.

I replied, explaining my own reasons, other than laziness, for not answering that question. Included was the fear that my answer could be used for religious persecution by invading Chinese authorities.

By writing and quoting the Bible about even worse events to come, I assumed (apparently wrongly) that you as a Christian had similar thoughts.