You’d be better served to admit human nature and it’s preponderance towards domination.

There is no answer.

So accepting this fact, why not enlarge your understanding by including the greatest injustice of last century, the US invasion of Iraq.

Russia and China are no better or worse than the US . This is how life works.
Stop wishing for impossible outcomes and grasp the nettle of reality: Wars you will always have, the excuses for them are thin-on in reason.

The US is as bankrupt as was the Roman Empire, from over extending themselves with the burden of wasting resources to win them.

The Ukraine has already lost this conflict, and for the sake of peace for its people, should surrender to the will of Russia.
That would be a very simple logical move, and contribution to world peace wouldn’t you say!

Dan

Dan.

"Putin would not use his nuclear weapons in face of a world-wide response"
Really, if you believe that let me sell you a pristine harbour bridge.
Don`t generally disagree with the writer but when a mad dictator has nuclear weapons anything can happen.
Perhaps the clown in North Korea may not but Putin??

Three references which are very much about a universal moral theory
http://www.dabase.org/12laws.htm
http://www.dabase.org/p2anthro.htm
http://www.priorunity.org

Vladimir Putin's excursion into the Ukraine is just the latest chapter in man's quest for domination over man.
Peter Bowden,
Don't you think NATO is guilty of that ? Bribing Ukraine politicians into sabotaging Russia & then forsaking it is way more of a domination ?
It pays to occasionally look at things from an outside of the square viewpoint ! I can only see a very corrupt picture with the people of Ukraine paying the horrible price.

To curb the lust for power, one needs to overcome weakness.

A man is naturally weak, his(/her) life is finite - and nobody can agree in their heart of hearts with that predicament: so long as we perceive of ourselves as limited humans, we will try to rebel against our finiteness. Some like Putin do it violently, the rest of us are passive-aggressive.

The only way out is to discover our error: we are not humans, we are not finite, we are not weak, we are not limited, we never were. Then we don't need to helplessly lust for power, which is already ours anyway (along with glory and honour and wisdom and blessing).

United-Nations-like ideas will never work because they too are based on the assumption of weakness. The illusory joining together of any finite number of groups of weak people, is still finite and weak.

Not all people, fewer and fewer in fact, have "moral inhibitions". Bowden says "we can" stop war, then proceeds to show that we cannot; even cites the totally useless United Nations. Wars, large and small, are a natural state for mankind.

Australia starting a movement to stop the veto veto power in the UN? That's a joke to end the week with. The world doesn't give a bowel movement for what Australia thinks.

"The world would be a safer and happier place with an effective world policeman." Fiddlesticks! The US in that role was hated and rubbished to the point it has now reached - useless and disinterested.

Philosophising and rambling on about philosophers no longer familiar to most people is a waste of time.

Putin has immunity from rest-of-world military responses because he breathed the nuclear word. He has the weapons, and he has convinced the world that he is mad enough to use them. 'Disarmament', ban-the-bomb attitudes are the biggest threat to world peace. A nuclear capability is the best deterrent to war.

In the meantime, forget Ukraine, and ask the people posing as politicians who want your vote, how is nuclear-free, virtually defenceless Australia going to survive Communist China

I'm afraid there is only one solution to this incurable insanity And that is a little lead pill delivered at very high velocity between the peepers, the sooner the better. Scotch one life to save millions! And therefore completely justified! And lets not forget the economic and environmental costs of not acting as rational human beings! least we forget!
Alan B.

ttbn, your comment on China in relation to Australia rings true and begs the question? Why don't we voters question our intending representatives on their yes or no attitude on nuclear arms for Australia and elect those with the wit to understand we need them for the deterrent factor they pose on all would be conquerors/those who lust for power and domination/mad dictators.
Alan B.

Dan, the Ukraine should never surrender because that would never ever stop this madman from going on and on seeking more and more territory; Least we forget!
Alan B.

Putin has again warned against any interference from the West, saying that he will retaliate with "all the tools for this that no one else can boast of having”.

A bit more serious than some old fool banging on about 'shoulds' and 'shouldnots.

Alan B

Australians don't appear to think that they have any rights in the politics of their country except to put numbers on a voting card. I have sent off a couple of emails so far in response to the the usual insipid pleas to vote for a candidate. They WILL go into the system; and even though they might have no effect, I can look myself in the shaving mirror every morning and know I tried.

Alan B

Rubbish. Ukraine should surrender. It’s already a lost cause and not worth a cup full of cold *bleep*.wasting money on its politically corrupt.
Russia has every right to expect political obedience from its border states.
We see in our own back yard, the bracket creep of China encroachment, facilitated without penalty, by our friendly (sic) neighbours.
Maybe we should follow Putins example.

I’m disgusted as usual with the Australian politic which to our knowledge, has sunk eighty million dollars into a criminal enterprise that is of primary importance to Bidens criminal son, and as yet only suspected, Biden himself.
What a disgrace!

The list of benefits eighty million dollars would make to our own communities, who are crying out for legitimate help and government support is now eighty million dollars further away from reality.

The above is not the end of negative contributions Ukrainian intransigence has cost Australians.
Need I mention unaffordable and scarce housing imposed upon from a pool of over a million Ukrainians looking for what we don’t have to spare.

Yes, Ukraine belongs to Russia and should toe the line, we have enough problems of our own!

Dan

I think some of the suggestions in the article are unrealistic.
That is because they would require people to be totally logical, which is not always the case.
People often neglect truth and reason.
For example, in the past they have turned a blind eye to climate change?

Ideally, people select leaders, and those leaders devise and administer good laws?
That is the way is should be for a well run democracy?
But these things can only happen when truth rules all negotiation.
It is truth which is all to often absent.
Its absence causes the illogical behaviour we see far too frequently.
So, to counteract the lust for power, we need more acceptance of truth.
That would lead to stronger democratic structure?

The absence of truth and reason was well demonstrated in a programme I watched on ABC Tv.
It was hosted by Annabel Crabb, and the subject appeared to be religious belief.
The group of supposedly adult participants behaved in a very un-adult manner.
Their overall leaning towards supernatural belief was almost alarming.
I kept thinking that it was time for them all to grow up.
Grow up and begin allowing reason to over-ride instinctive behaviour.
To discard intinctive response, and run on reason instead.

For Mr Putin: it seems he only has to threaten a nuclear response, and the rest of the world backs off in almost unseemly fashion.
That must stop.
Enough it enough.
It is time to respond properly.
A firm and logical approach must be used.
Perhaps that is already the reality?
There is no realistic alternative.
The world cannot allow this bullying to continue.
Those around Mr Putin would not favour a major war such as he seems to be threatening?

The article is basically a lot of irrelevant crap quoting supposed precedents and does not consider the important background story of why Russians resorted to authorising Vladimir Putin to initiate military action in Ukraine. This was after a request by Presidents of Republics of Donetsk and Lugansk ASKED for help when it became obvious a full scale blitzkrieg invasion of territories they held was imminent They declared independence from Ukraine in 2014 because did not like bad treatment from the largely US puppet government installed after US sponsored coup in Kiev. This forces of this government had been making regular attacks of Donbass territories held by so called "rebels", which resulted in deaths of around 14,000 people and ignored Minsk peace agreements which proposed giving the Donbass areas increased autonomy while keeping them within Ukraine. I have kept an eye on "alternative" news sources which includes articles from informed "Insiders " within the US of what their government gets up to in other countries. Also, have often checked mainstream Russian ones. The latter overall prove far more honest and objective than western mainstream sources, which could be describes as part of the "EMPIRE OF LIES". Without going into details here of why, I reckon action taken by Vladimir Putin regarding this Ukraine situation has been basically right and it is adds to reasons why he will go down in history as a great national leader. Meanwhile, our own stupid politicians have sent a large amount of resources from Australia to support a country with effectively Neo Nazis in power led by a professional clown who is a puppet of US interests .. Not those of his own citizens. More of our politicians blindly supporting US interests rather than our own.

Forget the UN, it is a loose coalition of liberal democracies that is helping Ukraine. Is it a wasted effort? Certainly not, and I think that liberal democracies everywhere are relieved at the Russian army's incompetence. Ukraine is now in possession of effective equipment to combat the Russian artillery, so it will get much tougher for the Russian army over the coming weeks. The United States and other liberal democracies see military aid to Ukraine as money well spent, which it is.

As for those critical of the United States, it was the United States that was instrumental in defeating Nazi Germany and Imperialist Japan. Did it turn those nations into wastelands and murder their citizens. No, they are peaceful, prosperous liberal democracies and make a great and ongoing contribution to the world. If you want to see a nation end up a basket case then let it be "helped" by Russia. How is it that the Americans are always at fault? (I will view AC's suggested banker video shortly, but I have had covid since Easter Saturday)

I am genuinely interested in how people are so anti-US in light of the "fate" of Germany and Japan since the second world war.

Rubbish. Ukraine should surrender. It’s already a lost cause and not worth a cup full of cold *bleep*.wasting money on its politically corrupt.
Russia has every right to expect political obedience from its border states.

diver dan,
It'd definitely save many lives & I don't think Putin has any wish to go beyond any of Russia's historical borders.
Let's see if we can get the Texans or Californians wanting to divorce from the USA & watch the Yankees jump up & down raving on about sovereignty !

Individual

"Russia has every right to expect political obedience from its border states."

Why? What happened to mutual respect? The consequence of political obedience to corrupt autocracies is not good, which is why Ukraine is getting so much help.

Russia is finding it very difficult to advance against Ukranian forces. The only thing the Russian army has going for it is their artillery, which is a harsh and crude weapon used indiscriminately against civilians. The weapons being sent to Ukraine currently are intended to target Russian artillery. Anyway, I think we will see the Russian army sink or swim in a few months, so you can gloat then if your wonderful commie mates prevail and then celebrate with indiscriminate atrocities against the Ukranians.

What I think a stroke of genius is the intention of liberal democracies to confiscate Russian loot and give it to Ukraine to help it rebuild. What I think makes it clever is the fact that the controlled Russian media denies that the Russian people have been totally ducked over by these psychopathic cleptocrats for decades, so accordingly there is no loot to seize. Brilliant!

Fester,
It's not simply one Nation wanting to take over another, at least that's how I see it.
I think it's a matter of not letting a Super power which, after all, is a balance power in the scheme of the whole World, lose that power this helped keep world peace.
Russia losing ground directly translates into purely a China - Us power play & that's extremely worrying. Having that third power to keep the other two in check is what's saving our bacon thus far.

Individual,

I think that "balance of power" has meaning when you want to curtail the aggression of a rogue state. Having the rogue states of Germany and Japan transformed into liberal democracies I see as positives. Further, having east and west Germany unite did not create the conditions for the degeneration of world order.

How would having the aggression of a rogue state like Russia curtailed lead to destabilisation of the world? I don't view the wanton murder of tens of thousands of Ukranian citizens as a legitimate action of Russia. I think it more a narrative invented by Russian cleptocrats in a similar vein as the Nazi narrative to justify invading Poland. There seems to be a narrative currently that liberal democracies will naturally degenerate into fascist states. So much for that narrative!

Fester,
How about putting a question to those Ukrainian power mongers who were vying for Western power mongers' favours to line their pockets. Ask them if they still think it wise to continue their stance & keep sacrificing more ordinary Ukrainians ?
Is ideology & greed really more important than the loss of thousands of lives in Ukraine & the risk of a WW3 ?

mox

It is refreshing to see that at least someone here has taken the time to read and understand the history of what is taking place in Ukraine.

You are right ... two decades of NATO's aggressive eastward expansion ... the US-orchestrated coup and overthrow of government in 2014 ... and Ukraine's subsequent refusal to honour the Minsk Agreements ... are indeed the reasons which have forced Russia into finally resorting to military action. Putin has tried repeatedly over many years to negotiate with US-led NATO, only to have his every attempt rejected or ignored.

The US knew Russia would not stand being pushed around for ever, but still it kept up its relentless provocation and bullying ... until it finally got the response it wanted. And it certainly won't back off now. Biden will continue pushing every lever he can until US plans for regime change in Russia have been achieved.

Putin is no madman. His objectives are clear and specific. He does not want to occupy Ukraine, nor any other country in Europe. He is standing up for Russia's sovereign right to live freely without being subjected to threatening military installations along its borders.

Russia has expressed its willingness to negotiate with Ukraine ever since it began its military action. If Zelenskyy can resume negotiating in good faith and if the Western world can stop flooding Ukraine with weapons, there is every hope a settlement will be reached.

Putin never had any plan to invade western Europe, and do you know why I know that?
Because you can't take Kiev with a population of 2 million people with 40,000 troops.
The objective was to split Ukrainian forces and hold them in place in separate parts of the country.

That's why they came in from the north;
That's why they also attacked Odessa from the Black Sea
It's a military strategy to keep troops in place, not take over the country.
Then they bomb the the oil refineries.
Ukrainian forces cant move without fuel
So now Russia can more easily take the eastern part of the country - which was their objective all along.

Putin's actually been using a velvet glove, he deliberately went in soft to spare civilians, but with faked atrocities and western media lies and narrative you don't understand that.

If he went in hard, he would've bombed every bridge, every tv station, all road and rail lines, power, internet, and then he would've ran over the country much faster, but there would be a lot more civilian casualties.
He doesn't want that, because the eastern part of the country is pro-Russian.
Ukrainian forces hold up in apartment buildings because it gives a good view of incoming Russia forces, and attacks on citizens can be claimed when really Russia is attacking the military assets.

He even leaves TV stations up so Zelensky can beg military help that results in dead Russians.
And the western news narrative and people like you says he wants to take over western Europe but has stalled because his forces are weak, that's not the true picture here.

The Minsk agreements failed, when Ukraine kept attacking the separatists region.

Putin didn't send forces into Ukraine until Luhansk and Donetsk claimed independence (which they have a right to do under UN Charter Article 1)
- and then formally asked to become part of the Russian Federation.

It was approved by the Russian Duma.
At this point Donetsk and Luhansk are now technically Russian territory.
(Only the west and its vassal states including ours don't recognise it)

Now if you consider them independent states, they don't have a recognised right of self defense / or collective self defense as Russia enacted in Syria because they are not member of the UN.

But there's a clause.
Russia (party to collective self-defense) is a part of the UN, which means that clause is nullified.

Next you have a right of nations (and there is a precedent for it in International law) to pre-empt any attack which is unavoidable.
This gives Russia a legal right to attack Ukrainian forces if there is unavoidable and imminent threat to those people and regions.

Which makes Russia's entire war in Ukraine LEGAL, as per international law.

There's only 2 outcomes Ukraine is destroyed, or they reach a negotiated settlement but the United States does not want peace.
It wants to keep the war going as long as possible to weaken Russia.
Peter Bowden, stop listening to western lies.

US is happy to fight to the last conscripted Ukrainian.
How do you think the Taiwanese will see this?
- Whats going to happen to them in coming years? -

Think about the Russian culture.

Every year on 9 May, Russia observes Victory Day as its most important national holiday. It celebrates the end of the Great Patriotic War (1941-1945) by staging events that dwarf those of any other country. In 2021, the performance in Moscow included 12,000 Russian troops marching through Red Square, followed by tanks and missile launchers, and it concluded with an aerial show of 76 jets and helicopters—one for every year since the victory over Nazi Germany.

This holiday is designed above all to remind the world of the enormous contributions Russia made in the Great Patriotic War. A few surviving veterans attend the event as a reminder that the Red Army inflicted nearly 90% of all Germany’s combat losses, and civilians across the country solemnly commemorate the 27 million Soviet citizens who died.

So how do you think Russia feels about a Ukraine which is run by NAZIs and in league with the United States, which will potentially have US bases under NATO membership and nuclear weapons 600klms from Moscow?

What Russia wants is for Ukraine to be like Mexico.
Mexico has its own government and rules, but the US most certainly would invade them if Mexicans decided to make a military pack with China and the Chinese started building military bases there.

Russia wants demilitarisation and denazification of Ukraine, nothing more nothing less.

AC

The allies, mostly the United States, were instrumental in the defeat of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. I see the peace and prosperity of both nations as testament to liberal democracy. Contrast this with East Germany, replete with cardboard Trabants, a failing economy with polluting industry, steroid mutilated athletes, and the paranoid Stasi reigning terror on its own population. Is East Germany an achievement worth celebrating?

The rationale for the Russian invasion of Ukraine is complete invention, and you might note that the Minsk agreements, signed by Ukraine under duress, have been violated as much or more by the Russians. You might also note that Russia was secretly provisioning the insurgency in eastern Ukraine.

As for Russia never intending to overrun Kiev, I disagree. The Russian army, with its forty kilometer column of armour, intended to lay siege to Kiev as it did with Mariupol. The Ukrainians were able to stop the column, so the siege was averted. The Russian army had to retreat else face complete destruction. You might note the frequent changes in the narrative of the Russian media.

Russia now has to use its dwindling supply of precision munitions carefully, with its current focus on stopping the flow of heavy weapons to eastern Ukraine. I think this strategy is working for them to a degree, but the Russians are taking heavy losses with the advance on Ukrainian forces. Russia has no other choice, as if they don't advance the Ukrainians will get more heavy equipment, and the Russians, whether or not they advance, face constant attack from drones and raiding parties. My own belief is that the Russian army is close to running out of equipment, at which point their offensive will collapse.

Is Russia doing anymore than Australia should be doing in relation to the Solomon Islands? The SI might not be on our border, but Chinese missiles can reach us from there. The same applies to PNG.

We might not be able to resist a full on attack from China, but we should be doing the little things we can do NOW to make it less easy for them in the future.

NB. I am not suggesting that either country be taken apart as Ukraine is by Russia; but occupation shouldn't be much of a problem. Hell, the SI government had to call on Australia to deal with local rioters.

I think Armchair critic is on the ball there !

Hey Fester,
The info regards Russia and WWII came from Oxford University Press.
If the info I put forward there is not correct, then I apologise for getting things wrong.
- But I assumed that info from a renowned University on WWII would at least be be fairly accurate
(If this 'Oxford University Press' are indeed related to Oxford University)
You can find the info here:
http://blog.oup.com/2021/08/what-does-the-history-of-victory-day-tell-us-about-russias-national-identity/

Thanks for the support individual, I don't too much of it.
The first casualty in war is the truth and we're all arguing amongst ourselves relying on the info at hand (much of it misleading) and no-one really knows the true picture.

Hi AC,

I'm not blinded to the Soviet efforts in defeating Nazi Germany, but I do question what they have gained for their sacrifice. Germany and Japan enjoy peace and prosperity whilst paranoid and poverty stricken Russia looks to me to be much like the Nazis they defeated. I have watched some of the video you recommended (covid permitting), and will watch all of it soon enough. While I don't discount anything, I would think it an oversimplification to ascribe all wars to a single cause. For example, if Hitler and Stalin both felt that their fundamental enemy was a conspiracy of Jewish bankers, then why didn't they align themselves against them and cut out the middle men?

Individual

"Is ideology & greed really more important than the loss of thousands of lives in Ukraine & the risk of a WW3 ?"

I get the impression that you you think the death and destruction in Ukraine is the fault of Zelensky, his nazi conspirators and the west because they dared to resist the Russian invasion. I guess the conclusion you come to might depend on what justification you see for the Russian invasion. Very muddy for the Russian army in eastern Ukraine, so I am hoping the Ukranians might have an Agincourt like victory. I see that the precision Russian munitions are still killing plenty of civilians. Zelensky's fault obviously.

Fester,
So, you think because it isn't the Ukrainians' fault all their casualties are less dead ?
What I could believe is that if they capitulated for time being there'd be fewer casualties.

"What I could believe is that if they capitulated for time being there'd be fewer casualties."

That isn't certain. The killings in Bucha and elsewhere in Ukraine seem to have been authorised by the Russian army. The objective of the Russian invasion of Ukraine was to demilitarise and denazify the country. That could easily have entailed a genocide of the population. And there were at least four other countries that Russia felt were in need of denazification. If Ukraine had offered no resistance, what would have happened to them?

I agree that the war with all its death and destruction is tragic and horrific, but it may be a better option than leaving a psychopath and his war atrocity committing army unchallenged.

Fester,
You have your view & I have mine. Other than suggesting to you to watch European News & forums rather than what you see here, I'll leave it at that.

Fair enough Individual. We are both appalled by the conflict. What I am trying to see at present is the state of the Russian offensive. Impossible to get great accuracy I agree, but Russian controlled media does not report specifics of the Russian offensive and denies any civilian destruction or casualties other than because of Ukrainian Nazis using them for cover, so I don't see what insight I might gain from it. What I can determine is that the Russian army is not making great gains, and both sides seem to be taking losses. What I don't know is how strongly fortified and reinforced the Russian front is. Five hundred kilometres is a large distance to spread their army over, and the Ukrainians would also be thinly spread. I feel it comes down to the quality of intelligence/surveillance and the ability to conduct discreet attacks on opposing forces, especially artillery and mortar units. Anyway, time will tell.

Fester, Indy. Nobody wins in a war. except perhaps the undertaker. The latter doing record business along with overflowing hospital wards!
To argue for a madman and his reasons, is also mad!

And has not and will not improve the lot of the average Russian but put them back to the dark ages economically and for generations! The Ukraine will receive lots of western recovery support!

Something the the further improverished Russians can thank the mad dictator for! And many will say, if it weren't broke, why try and fix it? He didn't like their politics!?

So we should go to war with every nation that choses a political system we don't approve of? Which seems to be the rational of Putin and his collection of insane support?
Alan B.

The Turkish navy is heading for the Black sea! No doubt to conduct a naval exercise? With the Russians obliging with their submarines and ships as the "pretend" targets?

Oh how jolly and such fun for the participating Admirals in their deeply bunkered war rooms?
Alan B.

Alan,

We all have a foundation for our opinions. I find parallels between the rhetoric of Putin's regime and that of Nazi Germany. I look at the US role in the defeat of Germany and Japan and see the subsequent peace and prosperity of these nations as reasons not to view the US as an evil empire. Conversely, I look at Stalin's mass murder of Ukraine when they sought independence from the Soviet Union, and of the many ex-soviet nations now wary of the Russian narrative portraying them as belligerent Nazi regimes as a prelude to justifying an invasion.

But that is only an opinion. Of interest to me is the conflict. There is an internet blackout around Kherson currently. This could be due to the Russians, but it also may be part of a Ukranian counteroffensive to drive the Russian army out of the south of Ukraine. If successful it could get them close to Mariupol. A counteroffensive in the south would make sense, but the Ukranian military's strength and whereabouts have been very well guarded secrets in the conflict. Conversely, the Russian army can't even hide their copious war atrocities. I wonder what Julian Assange has to say about Russian war atrocities? Perhaps he thinks it's okay, because let's face it, Americans do much worse don't they?

Hey Fester,
I don't support communism, that's socialism at the barrel of a gun.
I'm glad you've taken the time to look at that video.

I'll have a crack at what you said to individual though:
"I get the impression that you you think the death and destruction in Ukraine is the fault of Zelensky, his nazi conspirators and the west because they dared to resist the Russian invasion."

- I think the party at greater fault here is the United States, who overthrew the country in 2014.
Look at the mess they've made, are liberal interventions really a good thing?
The world should have said stood together and said 'We've had enough of this', after Libya and Syria.
Maybe the NAZI's win too, since they're driven by hate.

Hey Alan B,
"Nobody wins in a war. except perhaps the undertaker."
There are several parties who benefit.
The US benefits, when its aim is to weaken and destabilise the country.
But most of all, war is a BIG WIN for central bankers.
Ukrainians will be paying for this war for generations,
- That is unless the US can find some context to make Russia legally responsible and pay reparations.
Wars are also great for human trafficking and organ harvesting...

None of the civilians ever really win anything.
Citizens are the ones who pay with their lives or those of their parents and children,
- and if that's not enough, they'll pay for the cost of it if they're lucky enough to survive.
It took the UK 50 years to pay the US back for loans associated with WWII.

The answer to Putin's lust for power is to break his army.

Indications are that already 25% of the original army manpower is dead or wounded and the same % of tanks, trucks etc.

In a couple of months facing the state of the art Nato equipment, Russia's army will be compatible with a small African nation.

Amen, Shadowminister!

You casually dismiss the Russian justifications for war without even addressing them. This war was totally unnecessary and would not have happened if the US and NATO had been prepared to accept that Russia has legitimate security interests. And now, instead of striving for a diplomatic solution they are pumping weapons in Ukraine hand over fist. This will only result in more bloodshed and the destruction of Ukraine. Almost everything reported about the situation has the strong stench of propaganda. Unfortunately most in the western world and particularly our leadership have lost any ability to think and have no understanding of history.

"Indications are that already 25% of the original army manpower is dead or wounded and the same % of tanks, trucks etc.
In a couple of months facing the state of the art Nato equipment, Russia's army will be compatible with a small African nation."

They want you to think he's losing, stalling and desperate, so that the white helmets can stage a chemical attack and blame Russia for it.
- Just wait for it -

Why don't you look at the live war map?
http://liveuamap.com/
He's taken and occupied territory about half the size of England, in 10 weeks, and that's after a pullback from the push from Belarus to Kiev and Chernihiv.

8 years ago today 200+ people died in the attack on the Odessa Trade building.
http://youtu.be/aXrbfjbqTsg

AC,

The Russian army's plan was to take Kiev within a week, perhaps a few days. Also, how well can they hold what they have taken? The whole business is so horrible. I can't see any justification for what has happened. Further, I don't see Russia in any danger of being invaded with or without its crappy army. I think Ukraine the victim of a bs story for the purpose of enriching Russia's elite. Nearly 30,000 dead Russian troops by some accounts. That is sheer tragedy, not an achievement.

Hey Fester,
Someone asked me a while ago about my shared video 'All Wars are Bankers Wars' and asked why we don't blame it all on Jewish Bankers, or something like that.
I don't know if it was SteeleRedux, or you or mox...
I found something though.

Why is Zelensky Jewish, whilst Ukrainian nationalists are Nazis?
I added this following link below on the 'Why we need to challenge Russia’s human shields narrative' but its almost wiped off the main forum page.

Ukraine's Anti Russian Stance Is a Zionist Masterplan By Sheikh Imran Hosein
http://youtu.be/1YF0H5fnvis
- Interesting take on things, worth a watch.

Also interesting -
Russia is the global leader in Jew-hate
http://www.thejc.com/comment/comment/russia-is-the-global-leader-in-jew-hate-1.433603

I remember also reading the Russian Mafia is actually a Jewish-Russian Mafia - Chabad Lubavich

Why did Lavrov say Hitler had Jewish roots?
That's kind of curious hey?

Wasn't he in love with his half-niece Geli Raubal and maybe killed her because she was going to expose his Jewish ancestry?
- Something I read a long time ago, but can't find any link to it now.
http://www.foxnews.com/science/hitlers-secret-history-nazi-grandfather-jewish

Another thing I found curious is Victoria Nuland (person I suggested is most responsible for war in Ukraine) is a Neoconservative and board member of the National Endowment of Democracy.
Founders of Neoconservatism have Jewish roots.
And the National Endownment for Democracy is accused of overthrowing countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Endowment_for_Democracy

>>The National Endownment for Democracy has been accused by political activists, groups and governments around the world of being an agency for regime change and/or an instrument of US foreign policy following the particular ideologies and interests of the United States government. The history of the organization shows that it was created to take over some activities previously performed by the CIA.<<

AC

Is someone's ethnic origin formative in them being a criminal? If Hitler found out that he had a Jewish grandfather, how might that make him reflect on his extermination of Jewish people and his conduct in general? I like Sacha Baron Cohen's efforts to expose the absurdity of antisemitism:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJIXygpYcuE

Borat subsequently runs away after believing that his hosts have turned into cockroaches (he often goes too far).

Lavrov's suggestion that there was nothing unusual about the idea of a Jew being a Nazi because Hitler was Jewish probably employs the same reasoning that Ukraine is a Nazi regime hell bent on murdering its citizens and destroying Russia.

As I have said, it is a war now, and Russia has had about a third of its BTGs completely destroyed in ten weeks. Would Lavrov argue that the invasion has been a resounding success? I am sad that Ukraine has not had the offensive capability to relieve Mariupol, but they are holding off the Russian invasion and continue to inflict substantial damage.

Fester,
Eichorn, Himmler etc do sound Jewishl-y don't you think ?

Anyone claiming that Russia had legitimate security concerns is either a moron or deliberately lying.

There was never at any point any indication that NATO had any intention of launching a war against Russia. The smaller EU nations joined NATO precisely because of the threat posed by Russia against its neighbours which has been justified by Russia's aggression against Ukraine. It is the reason why Finland and Sweden will be joining NATO and thus in one stroke doubling Russia's border with NATO.

This unprovoked attack and atrocities have angered the western world and non-nato countries to the point that the humanitarian support and military support are increasing both in quantity and lethality to the point that the Russian army is being chewed up.

The sanctions will also make it very difficult to replace the tanks, vehicles missiles and aircraft that Russia is losing.

Individual,

Having observed them I agree that they support the Nazi ethos as examples of the type of person who could be culled to improve the human race. My problem is that the first few murders don't face much contest, but then the perpetrators become more and more liberal in determining who is next. That is what I believe the Russian army is doing in Ukraine currently.

Hey Fester,
When I started reading your reply, I was thinking 'Oh no, he's gone for the 'Throw the Jew down the Well' video.

http://youtu.be/Vb3IMTJjzfo

I used to be very critical of Jewry.
There's many things I don't like about their religion or beliefs.
But I've since made some online Jewish friends and they aren't trying to conquer the planet in some secret nefarious plot, they even enjoy bacon, love it... so I take less of a harsh stance, but I still have criticisms of aspects of the religion and would stand against many actions of the State of Israel.

Regarding destruction of Russian military assets
On some level I agree with your analysis, if the west keeps sending military assets, (and they can replenish men on the ground) then Russia is going to start running out at some point.

http://www.aa.com.tr/en/russia-ukraine-war/russia-claims-it-struck-space-rocket-plant-in-ukraine-s-capital-kyiv/2576405
"In total, since the beginning of the special military operation, 142 aircraft, 111 helicopters, 634 unmanned aerial vehicles, 278 anti-aircraft missile systems, 2,638 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 304 multiple rocket launchers, 1,175 field artillery and mortars, as well as 2,467 units of special military vehicles have been destroyed," he said.

AC,

According to your link, Russia's achievements have been impressive. In fact, they have destroyed more than 200% of the planes, tanks etc than the Ukrainians ever had.

shadowminister

<< Anyone claiming that Russia had legitimate security concerns is either a moron or deliberately lying. >>

At least four different people on this thread have argued that it was indeed Russia’s security concerns which directly led to its military intervention in Ukraine.

At the risk of becoming repetitive, I will repeat them one more time. They are NATO’s eastward expansion and containment of Russia, the 2014 coup and Kiev’s subsequent killing of ethnic Russians in the Donbass and Kiev’s refusal to honour the Minsk Agreements. Each of these provocations was instigated by the US.

The Russian action was not at all an unprovoked one. Putin tried to negotiate with the US and NATO for many years, but was rebuffed at every turn. He did not cross into Ukraine until eight days after the Ukrainians had begun shelling the civilian population of Donbass. It was in response to desperate pleas for help from the Russian-speaking citizens in the Donbass that he finally crossed the border.

Those who have taken the trouble to familiarise themselves with the history and the geopolitics of the region understand the reasons behind Putin’s intervention in Ukraine. It doesn’t mean they support his every move, but they do at least comprehend the reasoning underlying his actions.

These people are neither liars, nor morons. And your labelling them as such does nothing but reveal your own ignorance and naivety.

AC

I am not concerned by what people's view's are. I think that has nothing to do with whether they are nice people or otherwise. What I think wrong is the summary vilification of people on the basis of opinion, and I believe that is what the Russian army is doing. As for Putin's motives, I think it pure conquest with a fictitious justification.

As for the Russian invasion, what I notice is that the Russian army does not seem to be making significant gains. I agree that the Russian army has a great capacity to inflict damage, but they are taking large losses. I just wonder whether Putin will maintain the assault and whether he will continue to be supported.

Armchair Critic said- When I started reading your reply, I was thinking 'Oh no, he's gone for the 'Throw the Jew down the Well' video. http://youtu.be/Vb3IMTJjzfo

I used to be very critical of Jewry.
There's many things I don't like about their religion or beliefs.
But I've since made some online Jewish friends and they aren't trying to conquer the planet in some secret nefarious plot, they even enjoy bacon, love it... so I take less of a harsh stance, but I still have criticisms of aspects of the religion and would stand against many actions of the State of Israel.

Answer- There are many Hebrew Comedian's- it's almost as if Hebrew's want to dominate the comedy scene. All ethnicities and cultures are biased to their own interest- this is a matter of survival. According to critical theory everything is about power- while this may not be completely accurate- it stands to reason if a culture is doing something it's doing it for some reason- this is true for Hebrew's as much as it is for any culture or ideology- maybe there's a bell curve. Hebrew's also seem to like to present themselves as victims.

All cultures at different times have been victims.

I'm sure that Hebrew's are not only presenting themselves as victims to provide some benefit to humanity.

Perhaps even there are times when Hebrew's have been the victimizers.

The best lies contain some truth.

Sachen Baron Cohen is Hebrew even if he is secular- he will still act in the interests of Hebrew ethnicity and culture- just as I am British- and will act in the interests of British ethnicity and culture. Hollywood appears heavily dominated by Hebrew influence we need to reflect on how this affects our British interest.

Where one ideology's interests end others don't begin

Bronwyn,

I stand by my statement that "Anyone claiming that Russia had legitimate security concerns is either a moron or deliberately lying."

There is no indication whatsoever that Nato intended to attack Russia only that Russia was pissed off that the puppet states it had surrounded itself wanted to shake off its shackles. If anything it was Russia's warmongering that led states like the Baltics to protect themselves by joining Nato. In fact, it was Russia's unprovoked invasion of Crimea and the Donbas that led to Ukraine arming itself.
Putin's record in power has been accompanied by a series of military attacks on Russia's neighbours, especially its former empire.

What this unprovoked attack on Ukraine has done is wake up Nato and other countries such as Mordovia to the Russian threat. It has ramped up military spending and now has Nato and other countries both arming Ukraine and providing battlefield information.

Note that another Russian warship has just been sunk using Ukrainian versions of the harpoon anti ship missile.

Well I'll put my hand up shadowminister.
Based on your criteria I'm officially a moron.
- Because I'm definitely not deliberately lying.

On the other hand, I may just be someone who doesn't follow a herd mentality and doesn't give a crap what others think.
I look at all the info that's available to me and I form my own conclusions.
Also, I reserve the right to change my opinion if more information comes to light.
I don't like this war or innocent people dying anymore than anyone else.

But I've stated it time and time again,
I don't support sanctions, I think its collective punishment against entire nations,
And I don't support US overthrows as it suits its own interests.

AC,

I'm glad we cleared that up. You don't follow the herd but rely on propaganda and conspiracy theories.

As for sanctions, the point is to degrade the Russian economy, especially the ability of the Russians to rebuild its military and is the alternative to the west getting involved directly.

The date of May the 9th is being watched in case Putin decides to actually declare war on Ukraine.

shadowminister

NATO, led by the US, has relentlessly and aggressively threatened and contained Russia. It has deliberately set about recruiting former Soviet nations to join its ranks ... Georgia, Ukraine and Belarus being the last target countries to complete its military encirclement of Russia’s Western border. It has surrounded Russia with multiple military bases ... one in Poland 150 kilometres from the Russian border. Its claim of being purely defensive is a sham ... it has offensively and brutally bombed Yugoslavia and Libya. NATO's real purpose is to destabilise and weaken Russia.

What alliance has the right to gain its strength through threatening and containing a sovereign nation living in peace and posing no threat? Imagine an alliance attempting to contain the US in this manner. America wouldn't stand for it, yet it expects Russia to accept military containment as a perfectly benign and non-threatening situation. It’s total rubbish and the whole world knows it, even though the Western minority will never admit it.

Russia’s reintegration of Crimea was never an ‘unprovoked invasion’. Russian troops were already stationed inside Crimea in a legitimate peace-keeping capacity. Crimea voted independently and overwhelmingly to rejoin Russia. There was no invasion or forced annexation.

The fighting in the Donbass was not instigated by Russia. The majority of the population there resisted the insistence of the US-imposed government in Kiev in 2014 that the Russian language and the region’s longstanding ties to Russia were to be extinguished. Ukrainian forces moved into the area and began killing its citizens. Russia stayed out of the conflict until Kiev increased its shelling of the region on the 16th February. Russia’s move across the border was not an ‘unprovoked invasion’ It was a last-ditch effort to defend the Russian citizens of Donbass.

Since the days of Gorbachev, Russia has never shown any threat of expansionism. It has only ever wanted to live in peace with the rest of Europe. It even asked to join NATO, but its every diplomatic overture was always rejected. The US needs an enemy. It has used NATO to reestablish Cold War with Russia.

Bronwyn,

I have not heard any threats made against Russia by Nato, Europe or the US. Russia has made repeated threats to use nuclear weapons against other nations, e.g.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a39879099/russian-state-tv-threatens-to-annihilate-the-uk-with-1600-foot-tall-nuclear-tsunamis/

It has also made threats against other countries providing military aid to Ukraine. The heavy weaponry has finally reached the east and is being used with great effect by troops in the Kharkiv area. The Russian army could find the supply lines to its Izyum advance cut off. This could leave 20,000 Russian troops stranded. The performance of the Russian army in this war has been terrible. They have only excelled in brutality and murder.

Fester

<< I have not heard any threats made against Russia by Nato, Europe or the US. >>

They don't voice their threats. The threat is NATO itself and the way it's expanded eastward right up to Russia's borders. Aren’t you capable of putting yourself in Russia’s shoes? Can’t you imagine how it must feel to have your neighbours one by one join a military alliance which sits along your borders and opens its arms to all except yourself? My guess is you’re one of the edgy Australians who feels threatened by China’s recent investment agreement with the Solomon Islands? Well, let me tell you, this level of threat is absolutely nothing compared to what Russia has been forced to live with.

<< Russia has made repeated threats to use nuclear weapons against other nations >>

Russia is reminding the West of the MAD doctrine … that of Mutual Assured Destruction. It does not want the West to exacerbate and prolong the conflict. Russia is trying to bring Ukraine to the negotiating table as quickly as possible. Ukraine could end the fighting tomorrow if only it would promise never to join NATO and to honour the Minsk Accord. Russia does not want to occupy Ukraine. It simply wishes to end the threat Ukraine’s entry into NATO would mean for Russia’s security. And to ensure the safety of Russian citizens living in Ukraine. These are perfectly reasonable requests and Russia should never have had to resort to military action in order to have itself listened to.

<< It has also made threats against other countries providing military aid to Ukraine. >>

The military aid flooding into Ukraine is just adding to the death and destruction. It is madness to be so indiscriminately arming citizens and turning them into enemy combatants. Once armed, they immediately become legitimate military targets. Russia has tried all along to create evacuation corridors and to minimise civilian casualties. The West’s weaponising of the population is just putting more and more people in harm’s way. This is why Russia wants it to stop.

Bronwyn,

These threats you speak of are clearly imaginary or fabricated. The west and US have been pouring investment into Russia. There has never been any indication that NATO planned to attack Russia.

The invasion of Ukraine is entirely unprovoked and unjustified. Putin has made the biggest blunder of his life and started a war that Russia cannot win and that will degrade Russia into a 3rd world economy and army.

Bronwyn,

The numerous war crimes of Russia are well documented. That the Russian army is being smashed is a blessing.

I begin to wonder whether this is what Putin wanted all along - to destroy his own army because it became too much of a political threat. Is this why he almost wouldn't use his air-force?