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The Forum > Article Comments > Why we need to challenge Russia’s human shields narrative > Comments

Why we need to challenge Russia’s human shields narrative : Comments

By Nicola Perugini and Neve Gordon, published 5/4/2022

Vladimir Putin appealed directly to the personnel of the armed forces of Ukraine: 'Do not allow neo-Nazis and (Ukrainian right-wing radical nationalists) to use your children, wives and elders as human shields'.

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AC,

I think that the Ukranians may well be able to clear the Russian forces in three or four months, quicker if they can target the Crimean Bridge (that might be one reason they want the Migs). Whatever you want to make of the coverage, the crux is a military conflict. I get the impression that the Ukranian forces have more precise targeting than the Russians. I also think that they are getting move effective weapons on the front lines. The ABC is making out that the Russian offensive will be something in the East: It will be deadly for the civilians as the Russians keep targeting them, but the Russian army does not appear to be much better coordinated and protected than it was in the north. I am only sorry that the Ukranians don't have the capacity to relieve Mariupol currently.
Posted by Fester, Saturday, 23 April 2022 9:50:23 AM
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And here is an example of how the Russians are handling the local media:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61154066
Posted by Fester, Saturday, 23 April 2022 11:40:55 AM
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Zelenskyy Thanks Partners for ‘Finally’ Providing the Weapons Ukraine Needs

http://www.voanews.com/a/zelenskyy-thanks-partners-for-finally-providing-the-weapons-ukraine-needs/6541848.html

Now, you may think this is good, but I disagree.
I tend to agree more with this analysis below.
(Because I think it would be a better outcome overall, if Ukraine capitulates - though it may only be a short term solution delaying the inevitable)

Would Putin’s Russia Really Nuke Ukraine?

"Additionally, with the West flooding weapons into Ukraine, if Ukraine were to “win” the battle for the Donbas, as many Ukrainians now imagine they could, and indeed if they could push Russian forces entirely out of occupied Ukrainian territory, then what? In this case, my bet about whether Putin goes nuclear flips. To state the central analytic point more clinically: if conditions on the battlefield force Putin to choose between losing and escalating the level of destruction, I’ll give it three-to-one odds that he escalates."

Keep in mind that Russia already has nuclear missiles aimed at and in range of Ukrainian cities.

http://eurasiantimes.com/russia-deploys-tactical-nuclear-missiles-near-ukrainian-border-kiev-says-iskander-m-can-destroy-critical-military-infra/

Also keep in mind that 15 kilotons is what the US used on Japan.
And to reiterate just HOW BAD this situation could quickly eventuate,
Maybe it's time to go back over the old nuclear test footage.

- Bring on Atomic Annie - 15 kiloton -
http://youtu.be/AWyVd1iKa-I

Have a good watch.
What's it going to take maybe 2 minutes from when an order is given?
Lets forget about sides, because its not going to matter if this happens.
And I have to be honest with you.
To me this situation could already be inevitable.
- Maybe it just hasn't happened, YET.
No matter which side you're on, this is not a good outcome.
- I really hope things don't get this far, but I'm not very optimistic about things.

Best we can all really hope for, is some kind of compromise.
- That cooler heads prevail.
But if they did compromise and reach an agreement which I don't think will happen
- How long would it even last?

Watch Atomic Annie again, it can't hurt to look at a potential future outcome.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 23 April 2022 7:08:20 PM
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I have kept an eye on this war in Ukraine largely on Russian Federation based and a couple especially of "alternative' news websites from the US. Are far more objective than the peddled "Empire of Lies" from Western mainstream media, which is all many people see and hear. Is obvious Russia and the Donbass republics are winning this war and Ukrainian government has no hope. Unfortunately President Zelensky seems largely controlled by handlers in the US - especially fellow Jews and their main interest is keeping this war going as long as possible with aim of maximising cost to Russia. They do not care about suffering caused to Ukrainian people or damage to the country. Then the US and other countries - largely around Europe have imposed sanctions and are sending weapons. Are likely to hurt themselves and strengthen Russia in long term. Re arms, what Ukrainian military could make good use of is not necessarily among stuff sent and then it mainly has to be transported across Ukraine. With significant amounts destroyed by Russian missiles etc or stolen on the way. Then maybe captured or destroyed in combat areas. For further info, keep an eye on www.rt.com and www.southfront.org for a start from Russian Federation. Then from US based sources, probably best two are www.veteranstoday.com and www.thesaker.is . Note the latter is one site which uses a server in Iceland, which could overall help reduce risk of it being hacked or seized by powers in the US which do not like its messages.
Posted by mox, Saturday, 23 April 2022 11:06:19 PM
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'Russian Federation based and a couple especially of "alternative' news websites from the US. Are far more objective than the peddled "Empire of Lies" from Western mainstream media'

Translation? You prefer not to follow credible media but a minority of fringe views vs. deeper and wider understanding?

'Western', what does that mean? Can understand much Anglosphere mainstream media is suboptimal, or rubbish like Oz, but there are indie outlets in Europe & UK, publishing in English & other languages, which are excellent sources to be informed from the ground up, not bottom down agitprop via the Kremlin etc.
Posted by Andras Smith, Saturday, 23 April 2022 11:38:44 PM
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AC,

Putin is certainly waving the nuclear sabre, but I think this more a publicity exercise for the Russian public. The war is conventional. The Russian army has started conscripting Ukrainians, so that could harm their popularity in the east. I don't see the conduct of the Russian army warming Ukrainians to the prospect of Russian rule. I think the Ukrainians are close to being able to effectively attack Russian artillery, which would substantially alter the conflict.

Mox,

The difference between Russian media and "western" media is one of independence. Your argument appears to me that the controlled media is independent and the independent media is controlled, which strikes me as nonsensical. In Russia, the "special operation" is portrayed as a precision exercise, accurately targeting military objectives, with little or no harm to civilians and civilian infrastructure. Would you agree with this portrayal? For my taste, your mention of "Jews" is clearly anti-semitic ("Unfortunately President Zelensky seems largely controlled by handlers in the US - especially fellow Jews and their main interest is keeping this war going as long as possible with aim of maximising cost to Russia. They do not care about suffering caused to Ukrainian people or damage to the country. ").

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-24/ukraine-latest-russian-forces-fire-missiles-at-odesa/101011492
Posted by Fester, Sunday, 24 April 2022 8:30:37 AM
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