Can people sheltering in their own homes or buildings be considered
human shields ?
Surely aiming artillery at residential buildings cannot use shielding
as an excuse ?

"We" in Australia don't 'need'to challenge Russia. We need (really need) to challenge our politicians this coming election about what they are really doing about protecting our country from China. I have no faith in any of them being up to the task.

When the pamphlets start filling our letterboxes with offers to spend big, give us that, give us this, we need to start emailing every candidate demanding to know what they are doing about defence and China.

Forget Ukraine. Does anyone seriously think that they would be of any help to us if we were under attack? We, a country that is virtually defenceless, thanks to years of neglect by our political class, is sending money and equipment to Ukraine. God help us! The Canberra Clowns won't.

Nothing this mad dictator says can be believed!
Alan B.

From keeping an eye on what has been going on in Ukraine since the US sponsored coup in 2014 that installed a government in Kiev which has been relatively obedient to directions from Washington, I am one who regards the Russian action to help the so called largely ethnic Russian "rebel" areas in Eastern Ukraine being attacked by Ukrainian government forces as their only appropriate option. The local Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics with Russian help will almost certainly achieve their military objectives but the Western "Empire of Lies" has been way in front with the propaganda war. With basically the US "Deep State" trying to keep the physical war going as long as possible to try and weaken Russia. In the longer term, seems almost certainly its actions will have overall the opposite effect though. They don't care about prolonging and increasing suffering of others by "Fighting to the last Ukrainian" The claims in this article about Russia using human shields is to detract from the very obvious indiscriminate use of them by the ruthless Azov battalion types especially within the Ukrainian armed forces. Using the propaganda technique of accusing others of doing dirty things to try and detract from the fact that the accuser is doing far worse themselves. "Alternative" media sources have pointed these out. Also, exposed Ukrainian propaganda "false flag" actions and faked footage. Nowadays cynics often look closely for clues on this and draw attention to suspect details. Gather there is plenty of this in recent reports of alleged Russian atrocities in Bucha, in area they have recently withdrawn from to concentrate on action in the eastern Donbass region.

Putin always was evil, is evil and always will be evil.

What's the point in challenging?

When the wolf accused the lamb: "you pollute my water", the lamb challenged the wolf:
"how could that be? you live upstream and I live donwstream, so whatever I do with the river's water cannot reach you".

So was the wolf impressed? No, he just said "don't waste your time, I will eat you anyway!"

Mox,

Can you imagine a world where imperial Japan and Nazi Germany had lived until now? I see much of them in contemporary Russia.

Why are Japan and Germany so wealthy and good world citizens today? Do they have US puppet governments? Are they picked on by the US?

Ukraine has a liberal democracy, not a US puppet government. Personally I believe that Russians would have been wealthier than Americans today had they adopted a liberal democracy instead of a hate and paranoia inspiring autocracy.

As for the military invasion, I think that the Russian forces will be ejected from all of Ukraine bar Crimea within six months. I get the impression that the invasion has been a complete PR disaster for Putin. The criminality and brutality of the Russian army will bring more severe sanctions, keep the Ukranians fighting and the weapons flowing.

So let me get this right mox. There's a whole lot of people in Ukraine that have the ability to produce hours and hours of fake but convincingly realistic looking war zone video productions on their home computers/phones. And they can do this during the middle of a full scale war in one of the poorest if not the poorest country in Europe, with no budget and no previous acknowledged cinematic special effects experience, and within hours of events (such as the withdrawal of Russian troops from Kiev) that they've manipulated with these fake video's to their advantage.

Well watch out Hollywood!! Hollywood has been completely obsoleted by these guys!! Because it takes Hollywood, which is an industry that has decades of experience in special effects, 10's to 100's of millions of dollars using the world's most advanced movie editing and SFX graphics computer hardware/programs available at least months (but usually years) to produce less than two hours worth of realistic war scenes for a movie.

Or maybe, just maybe, mox the videos coming out of Ukraine are real? Hmm, something for you to think about.

I don't even need to read the stupid article, because I know her claim is wrong already.
For absolute certain, the Azov Brigate was refusing to allow civilians to leave Mariupol.

There's need to challenge Russia’s human shields narrative,
because it's not a narrative;
- Unlike everything other bit of bullcrap spouted from the TV these days.

Maybe you should write your next article on propaganda.
Maybe talk about the ills of turning your citizens into enemy combatants.
Or staging atrocities to sell a war to other western citizens.
So that no 'normal' person could oppose intervention.

This whole thing was engineered by US and Western interests.

AC

Do Japan and Germany invade neighbouring countries for spurious reasons, like claiming the neighbouring country is hassling ethnic minorities and plotting against them? Do they claim to be the victims of conspiracies by the US and her allies? They used to do that. Now they are paranoia free liberal democracies, peaceful and prosperous.

The mess in the Ukraine is totally the fault of Russia, a third world toxic waste dump run by psychopathic gangsters. And why would they use their nukes on western countries when the west is full of their loot, mistresses and kids? It is up to the Russian people to depose the horrible cleptocrats, else they can enjoy a miserable isolation from the civilised world like North Korea. Here is vid of some genocidal Russian thugs being blown to hell with a Javelin for your enjoyment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtAEI9L-buY

I can really do without your 'dumb as a box of rocks' analysis.
This is ENTIRELY the United States fault.

It's the United States fault when it failed to keep it's word in regards to NATO expansion following the fall of the USSR.
It's the United States fault for conducting the overthrow of the democratically elected leader Yanukovych in 2014 in the Maidan.

It's the United States fault for using its 5th columns to try and overthrow Autocratic nations and in doing so point a gun directly at Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, Venezeula and who knows where else.

This is a battle by globalists for total control of the planet
- Rule by Western monetery policy.

The United States could have easily prevented this situation by making clear that Ukraine would not be allowed to join NATO, but it publicly left that door open deliberately to help start this conflict in the same way it destabilised the region when it overthrew the country in 2014.

Are you so dumb that you do not comprehend that Russia, Iran and Venezeula not have enough wealth in natural resources for all their citizens to live like kings?
What do they need to make war with anyone for.

INSERT SANCTIONS HERE

And then you have the West making economic war against them.
The West is the aggressor, but you are too blind to see it.

I don't support western sanctions, its collective punishment and the West moves to overthrow and control countries through 'democracy', inserting its puppet rulers as it pleases and then robs those nations.

How much oil has the US stolen from Syria?
How many bombs have they supplied Saudi Arabia dropped on Yemen?
I havent forgotten how they dropped a bomb on a funeral of 400 people.
No-one cares about human rights then do they?
- or when Venezeulans are eating cats and dogs?

And we talk about the US being all good and holy, well I haven't forgotten Madeline Albright justifying the deaths or 500,000 Iraqi babies for the sake of their war:
- the hunt for non-existant weapons of mass destruction.
You were fooled then and your being fooled now.

- And you can bet YOUR LIFE the US has shot and killed untold numbers of civilians that got to close to their military assets without a care in their invasions.

This whole thing is a carefully managed psy-op and follows the same old script.

First you use civil society groups to cause unrest and get protestors out in the streets with the aim of getting police to act heavy handed so you can put it all over everyone's TV sets.
Then once the police or government is heavy handed against the protestors and you've used the media against them, the government will act to shut down that media.
It's then you label the government and leader an enemy of free speech a dictator / a regime / and not fit to govern the people.
It's a script mate.
You cause civil unrest and oust the existing government and install your puppet ruler.
That's what the West does.

These Autocratic countries cant do anything BUT act like paranoid dictators when this is how the West plays, and any such move towards democracy, the West will use as an opening to conduct an overthrow.

It's all a carefully crafted psy-op.

They cant have a war without the consent of the people, so they have to sell the war.

The way they do that is to stage atrocities which they can plaster all over Western TV sets and in opinion columns and current affairs programs with a common narrative to nullify entirely any opposition, so no-one can refute or resist opposing their military interventions.

This way no 'normal' person; or
No 'sane' person could possibly not support Ukraine and the moral right to send weapons and oppose Russia.

You've just been sold a war, you bought in.

In truth the West themselves engineered the whole entire lot of this.

You talk about Japan and Germany, well they are just Vassal states of the West.
How many US controlled military personel still reside in these countries?

Not to mention that this whole thing the US engineered benefits NATO, and justifies it's very existence.
You think the West didn't engineer the situation itself?
You're a fool.

All Wars Are Bankers Wars - fighting for total control of the entire planet with western monetery policy.

- Where all our nations money, is loaned into existence -

They destroy all our countries with forced immigration dictated by the UN to chance the demographics and change the government, so that we can never unite and oust our globalist masters.

I dont support making war against nuclear armed countries who are permanent members of the UN security council.
It's not my fault they ran out of smaller countries to overthrow and now they want a WWIII.

I'm not going to fight for Western monetery policy and woke UN agendas that say I'm a racist white male in my own country.
Globalist technocrats that insert Klaus Schwab trained initiates of the WEF Young Global Leaders Group as regional managers of our countries under the guise of democracy.
All they do is steal our nations assets by privatisation and put it in the hands of globals funds managers.

If this is the fault of the US (or NATO, EU, Anglo Saxons, 'the west' etc.) why are Koch Industries still active in Russia?

Further, it's the same mob behind Koch Network of think tanks that the AIP is here also linked with, promoting radical right and nativist libertarian ideology.

Renowned 'lefty' of Counter Punch fame Eric Dreitser has described the left as 'fake anti-imperialists' and many of the right are also guilty of the same sentiments. It requires ignorance of good sources and suffering of civilians to run protection for Putin who has effectively ruined Russia, the economy, society, working age and youth for a generation at least.

Interesting how the radical right libertarians mask their support for authoritarian states and a form of corrupt rentier socialism, for the top people and/or corporate entities; includes buying off older and more dominant voters

'The myth far-right zealots run Ukraine is Russian propaganda.

https://www.euronews.com/2022/04/12/the-myth-far-right-zealots-run-ukraine-is-russian-propaganda-view?

'Global Research, features a Canadian domain name and offers an ever-expanding collection of conspiracy theories, such as the myth that the 9/11 attacks and COVID-19 pandemic were both planned in order to control the population. The website also hosts articles experts have attributed to a Russian spy agency'

https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/russian-disinformation-global-research-website-1.5767208

https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/AERODYNAMIC%20%20%20VOL.%205%20%20(DEVELOPMENT%20AND%20PLANS)_0004.pdf

If you like gory stuff Fester maybe this video of a Russian tank firing on a dozen Ukrainian soldiers at point blank range will take your fancy.

http://twitter.com/timetravel077/status/1513781759271395332

AC: What does a document about the USSR inc. Ukraine of the '60s in the 20th century have to do with events of the past two decades in Ukraine i.e. the 21st century?

It's a bit of a 'Pilger' drawing back on old claims, perceptions and intelligence to avoid referring to current inconvenient truths?

According to Cohen in The Guardian 5 March '22, 'Far right and far left alike admired Putin. Now we’ve all turned against strongmen' complaining of both left and right (e.g. Fox News):

'The worst people in the west were pro-Putin. They excused his imperialist ideology and crimes against humanity and never paid a price for bootlicking a dictatorship. On the contrary, they took Britain out of the European Union and took over the Labour party. They won the presidencies of the United States and the Czech Republic and seized control of politics and the media in Hungary'

Well Andrea, first you tried to make out I was full of it.
You tried to make out that the link I shared was fake news, simply because of the website it came from, did you not?

So I simply looked up and referenced relevant info from the cia.gov site to nullify your attempt to tar my info based upon the website it was published on.

The part you should pay attention to is this:

AERODYNAMIC continued into the 1980s as operation QRDYNAMIC, which was assigned to the CIA’s Political and Psychological Staff’s Soviet East Europe Covert Action Program. Prolog saw its operations expanded from New York and Munich to London, Paris, and Tokyo. QRDYNAMIC began linking up with operations financed by hedge fund tycoon George Soros, particularly the Helsinki Watch Group’s operatives in Kiev and Moscow. Distribution of underground material expanded from journals and pamphlets to audio cassette tapes, self-inking stamps with anti-Soviet messages, stickers, and T-shirts.

Soros.

https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/voices/keep-spirit-maidan-alive

The US conducted the Maiden in 2014, they overthrew the country.
Clinton, Biden, Nuland, Soros, McCain
They ran the op out of the US Embassy in Kiev.
- Which is where the DNC server Trump was looking for was relocated to.

http://youtu.be/bpIoBUDuL3U

I support Russia - by default.
Because I don't support the west overthrowing countries, and I don't support the west making war on nuclear armed members of the UN security council.

End of Story.

But your woke - guardian article is a load of crap anyway.
Cohen ends by saying Putin is waging economic war on the West.
If you believe that then you'd believe any form of Western propaganda parading itself as news.

It's the West which wages economic war on countries with sanctions.
Exactly what planet do all you nut-crackers actually live on?

Goodness me AC,

Shame to see your psychopathic killer mate Vlad's flagship at the bottom of the Black Sea. How did that happen? A fire started by a dodgy Iphone charger perhaps? And no lives lost either. What a miracle.

At least Vlad's hit squads are still active in Ukraine, randomly killing and maiming citizens and foreign press. And good to see the Russian army focusing on military targets such as hospitals, schools, housing estates, train stations and sports stadiums.

Autocratic countries always have elaborate conspiracy theories pointing the blame for all their failures at others. What the conspiracy theories can never explain is why the nations become so peaceful, prosperous and egalitarian when they adopt democracy.

For your viewing pleasure AC, here is a vid of some depraved Russian pigs shooting a Z tank full of their comrades. Hasta la vista baby!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/ukraine/video-2661855/Video-Russian-tanks-appear-blow-comrades-earlier-war.html

Yes it's kinda sad, it was a pretty ship, but its just a chunk of steel. War machines are only made for killing anyway.
Ukraines lost a quarter of it's land mass and Mariupol about to fall.

You know all this started from people not accepting realities.

The reality is the US overthrew the country in 2014
But it was a bit of a botched coup, because none of the Russian speaking citizens in the east and in Crimea went along with it.
So they, who did not support the Banderites in Kiev, voted to separate from the country, and did so completely in line with UN right to self determination.

But the die-hard Ukrainian nationalists emboldened by the backing of the US, just couldn't cop it.
They spent the last 8 years indiscriminately killing the separatists, and well here we are.

Your rhetoric is a waste of time, I've seen what the US does mate.
I bet they were dragging rotting corpses out from under the rubble of flattened buildings in Raqqa for months.
Not forgetting the US more-or-less supported Islamic State when they were fighting Assad.

Media's become so full of crap with forced narratives
Supporting Ukraine is like the next bullcrap feelgood thing
Like supporting Black Lives Matters or Gay Marriage.

You can say whatever you want, it won't change anything with me.
I don't support the West overthrowing other countries, and I don't support making war on nuclear armed permanent members of the UN security council.
END OF STORY.

Our country charges 44 cents a litre fuel excise
Where the total price of fuel is still only AUD 70c a litre in Russia.
We're all paying for this stupid war.

But there's always some paid tosser telling us to have 2 minutes showers n car pool in order to 'Get Putin', Lol
http://youtu.be/MB-eYj3Eh2M
- That's the western monetery system trying to impose itself upon the whole planet.
Unelected beaurecrats from Brussels trying to control my life.
They are the dictators that already rule me by foreign treaty, not Russia or China.

This is what you all support.

http://www.rferl.org/a/banderite-rebrand-ukrainian-police-declare-admiration-for-nazi-collaborators-to-make-a-point/29764110.html

I'll tell you something else too.
My position hasn't changed since I joined this forum at least 8 years ago.
I don't support the West overthrowing foreign countries, or using sanctions which I consider a form of economic war and collective punishment in order to create the conditions for future overthrows.
And I'm not going to change my beliefs for you or anyone, anytime soon.

Well AC, I cannot fault you for arguing your opinion and taking the time to express it. I think you a very decent character for doing that, as much as I disagree with you. I think human kindness much more fundamental than politics.

I am influenced by things like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNblJ5sApro

Further, I think the idea of a conspiracy of media reporting of the conflict would present more challenges than faking the moon landings. Take the recent sinking of the Moskva as an example. According to Russian media it was an accident and all crew were evacuated, yet Kiev is subsequently targeted with missile strikes in "retaliation"? From my searches I found accounts that fewer than sixty of a crew of over 460 were rescued. They were rescued by a Turkish vessel and I found this footage of the sinking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fWfrk873OU

I also found this account on youtube (apologies for the broken English):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzYJqbyyPTI

"..only 58 sailors from Moscow was pulled out of water.. my conection in Turkeye tell,that they looked (don´t know with,maybe with their UAV) over the whole situation and said,that he never see such amount of unbelievable incompetence,amateurism and idiocy ..they saw the sailors running there and back many times,nobody tries to solve the fire and prevent the ammo depot explosion! Some died,while jumping into water and were crushed by own ship :-( ,which was out of control at the time! Many of them also died by the blast itself..it was extremely huge Kaboom! .. look on the Slava-class armory and try to imagine,how much dangerous ammo must be on board!".....

"Now i remember,with big smile,on a interview with some russian admiral (about 3 months ago and it can be still found on net) spitting lies about UA Neptune missiles! He claims,that this systems are no threat to any vessel in Black SeaFleet,he sad: "It´s only improvised obolete soviet Ch-35 system,it´s not possible,that ukrainians make it any way possible to hit our ships! :-) " ..etc.,etc.. Now,his opinion should be changed... Slava Ukraine!"

I saw some footage of the Moskva today, she was in pretty bad shape,
Take a look for yourself.
http://youtu.be/ZKqhQI1FSCc

Interestingly, Russia didn't even build it, Ukraine did. 'Moskva' was built in Ukrainian Mykolaiv in 1979, as well as other big ships of USSR. Only Ukraine had gigantic docks in the entire USSR. Until 2014, (Euromaidan) Ukraine supplied Russia with gas turbines for new ships and Russia could produce frigates with Ukrainian turbines, but Russia could not produce cruisers and other large ships.

Most certainly Russia was playing down the truth of what happened.
For one, there was no storm as they claimed.
I'd say that a significant number of sailors lost their lives.

The kind of misinformation above is completely different to 'staged atrocities'.
As for the misinformation regarding the Moskva, both sides will make statements that are in the interest of troop morale and managing a response from the citizens at home.
It's a war after all.

As for stages atrocities - there's a number of pictures I've seen from Ukraine showing stuff that looks potentially staged.
Take a look:
http://www.9news.com.au/world/ukraine-train-station-dozens-killed-in-strike-on-train-station-evacuating-civilians/fa1d59d0-f4a9-4457-8861-78264b0a5249

I don't buy that missile on the grass, it's not realistic enough.
I think there'd be more dirt and bigger crater if a missile engine with that kind of weight came down there after being shot down.
Re: The abuse spray painted on it: I don't buy it.
This is an image intended for publicity and to get a reaction, and it looks staged to me.

Scroll down a bit more to the alleged missile strike at the train station.
Wheres the missile crater, and where's the blood trails of people crawling away injured.
And why did so many people allegedly get killed but there's no damage to any of the luggage or (well placed for effect) baby carriage?

Scroll down a bit more, You'll see a row of burned out cars supposedly the result of a missile attack.
If this is true, then why aren't any of those glass arched windows 10 feet back behind them broken?
I'm not a detective but it seems to me that many of you aren't looking at the pictures very hard.
Your trained not to question what they tell you.

I remember seeing some footage earlier on when they claimed a maternity ward was hit by a Russian missile.
But I also later saw staged footage of a pregnant woman on a stretcher being pushed out of a blown up building, and it was staged.
You wont see any of this other evidence when your only source is the mainstream media.
And as long as you people are the majority;
Then people like me will just be called names and other conflicting bits of evidence you'll just never see or hear about.

http://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-peoples-governments-the-master-list

‘You furnish the picture and I’ll furnish the war.’ So said legendary newspaper magnate William Randolph Hearst to famed artist Frederic Remington, who landed in Cuba in 1897 in order to illustrate what was a rumoured revolution brewing in the island nation, then a colony of the Spanish Empire. Only there was no revolution, no conflict. There was nothing for Remington to illustrate; the explosion of the USS Maine in Havana Harbour in 1898 gave Hearst his opening. With only a few edited stories, some fake technical documents, twisted truths, and outright lies, Hearst whipped up the public so feverishly and so effectively that the US government, looking to prove itself on the world stage, landed troops in Cuba and began the Spanish – American War.

The USS Maine arrived in Havana Harbor on January 25th, 1898 to protect U.S. interests and civilians during pro Spanish rioting in Havana. This had a calming effect on the riots. Then on February 15th the forward hull of the Maine exploded in a devastating blast and was sunk. 266 of the 355 sailors on board were killed.
The papers of Hearst and Pulitzer wasted no time in casting the blame on the Spanish and sounded the alarm to go to war. The Navy, in another classic case of the government investigating itself, determined that a mine caused the blast despite the fact they had no real forensic evidence. They would not however place any blame on who was responsible for the mine. This didn’t matter though as the U.S. public’s mind was already made up. “Remember the Maine, to hell with Spain” was the cry.

In 1911, the Department of the Navy floated the remains of the ship and conducted another investigation. They once again concluded that the blast was the result of a mine. Many investigators disagree and have a conflicting theory that there was spontaneous combustion of coal next to the magazine of ammunition in the forward hull. The evidence suggests that the blast blew outward from the hull and not inward as a mine would cause.

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/powered-out-samantha-power-misunderstood-her-role-123311

Take a read of this and you'll start to understand the mindset of these people who believe in American exceptionalism and Liberal intervention.

Someone else in government like Hillary comes along and says.
"I can steal all his gold. What a great idea"

And then 10's of thousands of people get killed and the US robs the country.
US foreign policy does not bring about good outcomes.

As for the weapon that sank the Moskva, on face value, I think it's just as likely the US sent something better than Neptune missiles if the prior Russian info was anything to go by.
- They probably wouldn't admit it if they did right?
Because then it would be US weapons that sank the Moskva, right?

You people got to think outside the box.

AC

Unnecessary death and destruction is always a certainty in war. I have doubts about the Russian army's ability to attack over a 300 mile front. I think it will make them more vulnerable to raids by the Ukranian forces. The Ukranians should have plenty to meet a Russian attack, so it depends on what the Russian army plans.

I thought you might have related the Donbas to the Texan war of independence, although in the Donbas the Russian settlers came after Stalin had starved a few million of the locals to death. Whether they want Russian rule or not might depend on how bourgeois they consider flush toilets.

As for Teddy Roosevelt, he didn't back away from fighting corrupt pollies either. I wish we had a politician of that caliber in Australia today.

And loads of sad stories on RFE. They don't strike me as fabricated stories, but nor did the cluster bombing of a crowded train station by the Russian army.

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-moskva-sinking-sailor-deaths-quiet/31809581.html

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-ukraine-war-soldiers-death-widows/31807362.html

I saw what looked like cluster munitions being used.
Though you couldn't tell where it was.
As for the attack on the train station.
Look at this picture and answer me one question.

http://imageresizer.static9.net.au/l2a_iYSyRdzzM_DhwqTsIycX_tk=/1200x0/https%3A%2F%2Fprod.static9.net.au%2Ffs%2Ff5d12f78-3bb0-4d2f-8dd5-1020e7cce368

Don't you think if a bomb or missile went off there;
Then maybe that luggage and pram might have gotten knocked over and damaged.

Alternatively, how exactly do you explain realistically a bomb or missile attack there but the pram and luggage don't get damaged or knocked over from the blast?

Thats like entertaining the big bang theory from a Christian perspective:
A bomb goes off and after the dust settles there's a brand new rolls royce?
Do you believe that?

Just heard the ABC news discussing radio interceptions
They claim a Russian soldier called his wife to ask her if its ok to rape Ukrainian women.
Apparently she gave the ok.
It's ridiculous.

Do you actually believe this stuff?
The first casualty of war is the truth.

There's no way to tell whats really true and what isn't.
They know this, they why they are selling us this crap.
they are just telling us what they want us to hear.
That's how you sell a war.

Zelenskys on there talking about Easter, all he wanted out of a ceasefire was a change to get aid (weapons) and regroup to continue the fight.
Nothing to do with celebrating Easter at all.

Oh yeh I forgot, theres a small section at the end of that Ukrainian radio operator segment where the Ukrainians responded to the Russians: Ukrainians displaying Nazi symbols were shown.

So anyone who says their not NAZI's need only watch the ABC.
How does the left support far right nationalist NAZI's exactly?
Everything is just spun to manipulate the people.

AC,

I think that the Ukranians may well be able to clear the Russian forces in three or four months, quicker if they can target the Crimean Bridge (that might be one reason they want the Migs). Whatever you want to make of the coverage, the crux is a military conflict. I get the impression that the Ukranian forces have more precise targeting than the Russians. I also think that they are getting move effective weapons on the front lines. The ABC is making out that the Russian offensive will be something in the East: It will be deadly for the civilians as the Russians keep targeting them, but the Russian army does not appear to be much better coordinated and protected than it was in the north. I am only sorry that the Ukranians don't have the capacity to relieve Mariupol currently.

And here is an example of how the Russians are handling the local media:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61154066

Zelenskyy Thanks Partners for ‘Finally’ Providing the Weapons Ukraine Needs

http://www.voanews.com/a/zelenskyy-thanks-partners-for-finally-providing-the-weapons-ukraine-needs/6541848.html

Now, you may think this is good, but I disagree.
I tend to agree more with this analysis below.
(Because I think it would be a better outcome overall, if Ukraine capitulates - though it may only be a short term solution delaying the inevitable)

Would Putin’s Russia Really Nuke Ukraine?

"Additionally, with the West flooding weapons into Ukraine, if Ukraine were to “win” the battle for the Donbas, as many Ukrainians now imagine they could, and indeed if they could push Russian forces entirely out of occupied Ukrainian territory, then what? In this case, my bet about whether Putin goes nuclear flips. To state the central analytic point more clinically: if conditions on the battlefield force Putin to choose between losing and escalating the level of destruction, I’ll give it three-to-one odds that he escalates."

Keep in mind that Russia already has nuclear missiles aimed at and in range of Ukrainian cities.

http://eurasiantimes.com/russia-deploys-tactical-nuclear-missiles-near-ukrainian-border-kiev-says-iskander-m-can-destroy-critical-military-infra/

Also keep in mind that 15 kilotons is what the US used on Japan.
And to reiterate just HOW BAD this situation could quickly eventuate,
Maybe it's time to go back over the old nuclear test footage.

- Bring on Atomic Annie - 15 kiloton -
http://youtu.be/AWyVd1iKa-I

Have a good watch.
What's it going to take maybe 2 minutes from when an order is given?
Lets forget about sides, because its not going to matter if this happens.
And I have to be honest with you.
To me this situation could already be inevitable.
- Maybe it just hasn't happened, YET.
No matter which side you're on, this is not a good outcome.
- I really hope things don't get this far, but I'm not very optimistic about things.

Best we can all really hope for, is some kind of compromise.
- That cooler heads prevail.
But if they did compromise and reach an agreement which I don't think will happen
- How long would it even last?

Watch Atomic Annie again, it can't hurt to look at a potential future outcome.

I have kept an eye on this war in Ukraine largely on Russian Federation based and a couple especially of "alternative' news websites from the US. Are far more objective than the peddled "Empire of Lies" from Western mainstream media, which is all many people see and hear. Is obvious Russia and the Donbass republics are winning this war and Ukrainian government has no hope. Unfortunately President Zelensky seems largely controlled by handlers in the US - especially fellow Jews and their main interest is keeping this war going as long as possible with aim of maximising cost to Russia. They do not care about suffering caused to Ukrainian people or damage to the country. Then the US and other countries - largely around Europe have imposed sanctions and are sending weapons. Are likely to hurt themselves and strengthen Russia in long term. Re arms, what Ukrainian military could make good use of is not necessarily among stuff sent and then it mainly has to be transported across Ukraine. With significant amounts destroyed by Russian missiles etc or stolen on the way. Then maybe captured or destroyed in combat areas. For further info, keep an eye on www.rt.com and www.southfront.org for a start from Russian Federation. Then from US based sources, probably best two are www.veteranstoday.com and www.thesaker.is . Note the latter is one site which uses a server in Iceland, which could overall help reduce risk of it being hacked or seized by powers in the US which do not like its messages.

'Russian Federation based and a couple especially of "alternative' news websites from the US. Are far more objective than the peddled "Empire of Lies" from Western mainstream media'

Translation? You prefer not to follow credible media but a minority of fringe views vs. deeper and wider understanding?

'Western', what does that mean? Can understand much Anglosphere mainstream media is suboptimal, or rubbish like Oz, but there are indie outlets in Europe & UK, publishing in English & other languages, which are excellent sources to be informed from the ground up, not bottom down agitprop via the Kremlin etc.

AC,

Putin is certainly waving the nuclear sabre, but I think this more a publicity exercise for the Russian public. The war is conventional. The Russian army has started conscripting Ukrainians, so that could harm their popularity in the east. I don't see the conduct of the Russian army warming Ukrainians to the prospect of Russian rule. I think the Ukrainians are close to being able to effectively attack Russian artillery, which would substantially alter the conflict.

Mox,

The difference between Russian media and "western" media is one of independence. Your argument appears to me that the controlled media is independent and the independent media is controlled, which strikes me as nonsensical. In Russia, the "special operation" is portrayed as a precision exercise, accurately targeting military objectives, with little or no harm to civilians and civilian infrastructure. Would you agree with this portrayal? For my taste, your mention of "Jews" is clearly anti-semitic ("Unfortunately President Zelensky seems largely controlled by handlers in the US - especially fellow Jews and their main interest is keeping this war going as long as possible with aim of maximising cost to Russia. They do not care about suffering caused to Ukrainian people or damage to the country. ").

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-24/ukraine-latest-russian-forces-fire-missiles-at-odesa/101011492

Fester especially: Re your comments about "Independence of media" and presuming that overall western media is more reliable and containing less misleading propaganda than that from Russia, this obviously was the case in days of the communist Soviet Union. More recently it has been largely the opposite regarding big media organisations. There are now fewer and bigger of them in the west and with decline in advertising revenues partly due a lot now on the Internet, these media companies cannot afford as much quality journalism from experienced people. Now they are much more likely to publish with less scrutiny whatever they get fed by government departments and other powerful interests of their own countries and also large international news syndicates. Meanwhile, Russian media lately seems to overall prove much more honest, objective and informative on some topics such as the current war in Ukraine. Note that western "powers that be" do not like this and have recently stopped radio programs originating from Russia Today ww.rt.com - which also runs sputnik news. It has had news bureaus in US and UK, where some citizens who follow it have come to regard as more reliable than domestic sources. Including what seems to some nowadays as effectively the "Brutish Bulls--ing Corporation. Which is still not as bad as much of the US media. Then Fester tried to dismiss my comments on how Ukrainian President Zelensky has been effectively adopting policies wanted by Jewish handlers in Washington especially as "antisemitic". A name calling tactic to try and discredit a comment about some Jews as well as others Zelensky obviously takes orders from which cannot be refuted. Even though there would also be Jews who oppose them. Then re written Russian media, some websites are in English for a start. Others initially come up in Russian and after delay, English. Maybe my computer automatically selects this from language options some news sites have.

Mox,

I commented because I had just seen a program of children who survived the Holocaust in eastern Europe. Their lives were shaped by some having a belief in a malevolent organisation of Jewish people. From what I saw they were just ordinary people living their lives as part of a community. I think that Russians are the big losers since the second world war ended. Poor, powerless citizens, controlled by brutal thieves, and their plight is claimed to be the result of Jews and western governments. Such was the view of the Germans and Japanese. What do they think now Mox? Are they poor? Powerless? Governed by brutal thieves? Victims of a Jewish conspiracy? I hope the Russian people can cast off their horrible rulers and begin to enjoy the peace and prosperity of liberal democracy.

"Putin is certainly waving the nuclear sabre, but I think this more a publicity exercise for the Russian public."

I don't, because from what I hear their TV presenters are arguing the case FOR nuking Ukraine.

I don't support the US overthrowing countries.
Given that situation I most certainly support the separatists.
I support their right to choose their own path and if they choose to become a part of Russia, then that's their choice.

I support Putin recognising their independence and accepting them into the Russian Federation.

I also support Putin's Special Military Operation in defense of these people, but I am not so sure that invading the rest of the country was necessarily the right move.
I have this hunch that Russia was looking for biolabs in Ukraines nuclear facilities.

Given things have escalated, first I want to state that I don't want a nuclear war.

But part of me thinks that the only way to stop this from escalating further into a full blown war, might be for Putin to detonate a small one to show the world he's not kidding.

If I was in his position, I'd be seriously considering it.
If he doesn't assert the Russian position clearly to the whole world, it will be the US that has nukes stationed 600klms from Moscow.

The problem with western media is that they aren't impartial.
They never give a clear picture to whats really happening.
It's not impartial, it sells narratives that will a make a bigger war inevitable.

"Your argument appears to me that the controlled media is independent and the independent media is controlled, which strikes me as nonsensical."

It does sound ridiculous right? but unfortunately there's an air of truth to it.

The issue you and Andrea should be considering, shouldn't simply be that mox and I disagree.
Try to get past that, instead ask yourselves WHY we would disagree.
We're not looking for arguments, we simply hold a different opinion.

What things do we know and think, that makes us have a different perspective to the things that you know and think?

Mox, regarding the question on the alignment of Jewry.
I'm not exactly sure where all the loyalties lie.
I could throw some things out there, but I'm not sure there would be any benefit.

Instead I'm going to reiterate the importance of the 'ALL Wars are Bankers Wars' video.

I think you should all give it a watch, especially the others.
I swear that they will see the world in a completely different way after considering things that it presents.

And so I implore you all to watch the video.
It's not one of those videos that people often share which are painful to watch.
It's easy viewing and quite informative, and you will learn things that just cannot be understood any other way.
I really hope you all take the time to do so, especially with the potential for bigger wars on the horizon.

All Wars Are Bankers' Wars
http://youtu.be/Us58XnwBePU

This is a pretty good run down of events in Ukraine.
Scott Ritter: A Conversation About Ukraine
(USMC Officer and UN Weapons inspector 1991 - 1998)
http://youtu.be/-fNrnWxXhP0
- Watch this and you will understand how NAZIS run Ukraine.

Also, current CIA director William Burns (US Ambassador to Russia 2005 - 2008) sent this diplomatic cable in 2008.

Exert from diplomatic cable:
5. (C) Ukraine and Georgia's NATO aspirations not only touch
a raw nerve in Russia, they engender serious concerns about
the consequences for stability in the region. Not only does
Russia perceive encirclement, and efforts to undermine
Russia's influence in the region, but it also fears
unpredictable and uncontrolled consequences which would
seriously affect Russian security interests. Experts tell us
that Russia is particularly worried that the strong divisions
in Ukraine over NATO membership, with much of the
ethnic-Russian community against membership, could lead to a
major split, involving violence or at worst, civil war. In
that eventuality, Russia would have to decide whether to
intervene; a decision Russia does not want to have to face.
http://t.co/rOoxmuf7CN

It shows the US knew exactly what kind of situation they were creating in Ukraine.
- And that they went with that, as a matter of policy to create the situation we have right now.

AC and Mox

"We're not looking for arguments, we simply hold a different opinion."

For me, argument is not the exchange of abuse, nor is it the vilification of others. It is a means of gaining a better understanding of one's own views and those of others. So in its best form it is a means of building knowledge and empowering people. I very much appreciate the efforts of you both to explain your views, and I apologise to Mox for my antisemitism criticism, when perhaps I should have sought more clarification. At the end of it we are all human beings, and to see an argument as a means of demeaning one another would seem the height of childishness to me. I will take the time to watch your banking video link.

As far as the war is going, I get the impression that Russia is already bogged down, and is quite concerned with the Ukranians gaining in capability. I believe that this has led to a change in tactics of targeting supply infrastructure. Specifically, I believe that Russia is very concerned by the Ukranians gaining the capacity to efficiently target Russian artillery, as this capacity could make Ukranian counteroffensives more effective. Ten Russian generals killed, and one critically injured. Over a third of their tanks destroyed in two months of conflict.

Hi Fester,

I know it takes a bit of time to watch other peoples videos and it can be kind of annoying, sometimes it does takes effort to sit through others peoples videos and nobody really cares to watch long ones.

Bit it really is useful info and it will change your understanding of wars, money and how the world works.

I also really want to recommend the linked Scott Ritter video above,
- They really don't get much more comprehensive than that.

Everyone should watch them.

If you don't understand any of the backstory of whats happened in Ukraine, then this is the one I would recommend watching.
It will explain EXACTLY how it came to be THAT Nazi's run Ukraine.

Probably no-one will bother to watch them, but the info's right there.
And next week I'll have to battle it out all over again with someone else who doesn't know or wish to find out the facts.

I hope you take the time to do so.
You seem like a reasonably intelligent thinking person.
Thanks for the discussion.

Hey mox and Fester,
You asked about Israel.
I managed to dig this up.

Ukraine's Anti Russian Stance Is a Zionist Masterplan By Sheikh Imran Hosein
http://youtu.be/1YF0H5fnvis
It's an interesting take on things.

If you want a Jewish / Isreal connection to the situation in Ukraine
Then go no further than Ihor Kolomoisky.

http://www.haaretz.com/.premium-the-most-powerful-jew-in-the-world-1.5315512

Zelenskiy's Oligarch Connection
http://youtu.be/MXgli7TpINw

Zelensky, Hunter Biden — and Their Sugar Daddy, Kolomoisky
http://youtu.be/fUPKZkqXfZI