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The Forum > Article Comments > Why we need to challenge Russia’s human shields narrative > Comments

Why we need to challenge Russia’s human shields narrative : Comments

By Nicola Perugini and Neve Gordon, published 5/4/2022

Vladimir Putin appealed directly to the personnel of the armed forces of Ukraine: 'Do not allow neo-Nazis and (Ukrainian right-wing radical nationalists) to use your children, wives and elders as human shields'.

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I'll tell you something else too.
My position hasn't changed since I joined this forum at least 8 years ago.
I don't support the West overthrowing foreign countries, or using sanctions which I consider a form of economic war and collective punishment in order to create the conditions for future overthrows.
And I'm not going to change my beliefs for you or anyone, anytime soon.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Friday, 15 April 2022 12:31:36 PM
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Well AC, I cannot fault you for arguing your opinion and taking the time to express it. I think you a very decent character for doing that, as much as I disagree with you. I think human kindness much more fundamental than politics.
Posted by Fester, Friday, 15 April 2022 6:47:06 PM
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I am influenced by things like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNblJ5sApro
Posted by Fester, Friday, 15 April 2022 9:31:37 PM
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Further, I think the idea of a conspiracy of media reporting of the conflict would present more challenges than faking the moon landings. Take the recent sinking of the Moskva as an example. According to Russian media it was an accident and all crew were evacuated, yet Kiev is subsequently targeted with missile strikes in "retaliation"? From my searches I found accounts that fewer than sixty of a crew of over 460 were rescued. They were rescued by a Turkish vessel and I found this footage of the sinking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fWfrk873OU

I also found this account on youtube (apologies for the broken English):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzYJqbyyPTI

"..only 58 sailors from Moscow was pulled out of water.. my conection in Turkeye tell,that they looked (donīt know with,maybe with their UAV) over the whole situation and said,that he never see such amount of unbelievable incompetence,amateurism and idiocy ..they saw the sailors running there and back many times,nobody tries to solve the fire and prevent the ammo depot explosion! Some died,while jumping into water and were crushed by own ship :-( ,which was out of control at the time! Many of them also died by the blast itself..it was extremely huge Kaboom! .. look on the Slava-class armory and try to imagine,how much dangerous ammo must be on board!".....

"Now i remember,with big smile,on a interview with some russian admiral (about 3 months ago and it can be still found on net) spitting lies about UA Neptune missiles! He claims,that this systems are no threat to any vessel in Black SeaFleet,he sad: "Itīs only improvised obolete soviet Ch-35 system,itīs not possible,that ukrainians make it any way possible to hit our ships! :-) " ..etc.,etc.. Now,his opinion should be changed... Slava Ukraine!"
Posted by Fester, Saturday, 16 April 2022 5:10:57 AM
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I saw some footage of the Moskva today, she was in pretty bad shape,
Take a look for yourself.
http://youtu.be/ZKqhQI1FSCc

Interestingly, Russia didn't even build it, Ukraine did. 'Moskva' was built in Ukrainian Mykolaiv in 1979, as well as other big ships of USSR. Only Ukraine had gigantic docks in the entire USSR. Until 2014, (Euromaidan) Ukraine supplied Russia with gas turbines for new ships and Russia could produce frigates with Ukrainian turbines, but Russia could not produce cruisers and other large ships.

Most certainly Russia was playing down the truth of what happened.
For one, there was no storm as they claimed.
I'd say that a significant number of sailors lost their lives.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Tuesday, 19 April 2022 7:32:44 PM
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The kind of misinformation above is completely different to 'staged atrocities'.
As for the misinformation regarding the Moskva, both sides will make statements that are in the interest of troop morale and managing a response from the citizens at home.
It's a war after all.

As for stages atrocities - there's a number of pictures I've seen from Ukraine showing stuff that looks potentially staged.
Take a look:
http://www.9news.com.au/world/ukraine-train-station-dozens-killed-in-strike-on-train-station-evacuating-civilians/fa1d59d0-f4a9-4457-8861-78264b0a5249

I don't buy that missile on the grass, it's not realistic enough.
I think there'd be more dirt and bigger crater if a missile engine with that kind of weight came down there after being shot down.
Re: The abuse spray painted on it: I don't buy it.
This is an image intended for publicity and to get a reaction, and it looks staged to me.

Scroll down a bit more to the alleged missile strike at the train station.
Wheres the missile crater, and where's the blood trails of people crawling away injured.
And why did so many people allegedly get killed but there's no damage to any of the luggage or (well placed for effect) baby carriage?

Scroll down a bit more, You'll see a row of burned out cars supposedly the result of a missile attack.
If this is true, then why aren't any of those glass arched windows 10 feet back behind them broken?
I'm not a detective but it seems to me that many of you aren't looking at the pictures very hard.
Your trained not to question what they tell you.

I remember seeing some footage earlier on when they claimed a maternity ward was hit by a Russian missile.
But I also later saw staged footage of a pregnant woman on a stretcher being pushed out of a blown up building, and it was staged.
You wont see any of this other evidence when your only source is the mainstream media.
And as long as you people are the majority;
Then people like me will just be called names and other conflicting bits of evidence you'll just never see or hear about.

http://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-peoples-governments-the-master-list
Posted by Armchair Critic, Tuesday, 19 April 2022 8:19:00 PM
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