Another form of the same basic principle is represented by the adventurer, who seeks the stimulant of risk. And another form can be seen in the connoisseur, who seeks refinement in his pleasures. Thus enjoyment as a central value may take many different forms. What unites them all is the attitude that the meaning of life lies in the enjoyment, the experience, of things that are regarded as values.

Enjoyment pursued as a primary value has a hollow core.

And that is the problem with making enjoyment one’s central value. There is a passive element in enjoyment; it is a response to values. But life is action, and control over one’s life requires active engagement with the world on one’s own terms. Someone who pursues enjoyment as a central value tends to discover at some point that his life has not added up to anything, that he has drifted along without leaving a wake. Enjoyment pursued as a primary value has a hollow core, unlike the kind of enjoyment that is a response to values one has created. It is pleasing to see a beautiful garden, but there is a much deeper sort of pleasure in the sight of a garden one has designed, planted, and cultivated oneself.

http://theobjectivestandard.com/what-is-objectivism/

Human life does not require human sacrifice; people can live without giving up their minds, their values, their lives; people can live without murdering, assaulting, or defrauding one another. Nor can human sacrifice promote human life or happiness; it can lead only to suffering and death. If people want to live and be happy, they must neither sacrifice themselves nor sacrifice others; rather, they must pursue life-serving values and respect the rights of others to do the same. This is the basic principle of rational egoism—and the moral foundation for a proper social system.

Dear Canem Malum,

This is a lot of information, quite overwhelming as I did not expect such a huge response. While much of it is interesting, surely you do not expect me to find the time to relate to each and every idea expressed by the characters of Atlas Shrugged.

I apologize for my vagueness making you do all this homework without good cause: there is a difference between what an author or a book is saying and what this-or-that fictional character in their book said - obviously each book has good, bad, ugly, wise and idiotic characters, each of which could say practically anything, but what out of this was the author themselves trying to say?

So I go back to your original statement:
«Atlas Shrugged talked about putting pleasure before productivity in contradiction to nature»

Is this the view of Ayn Rand herself? I don't think so.
Was she writing in support of that idea - or more likely in order to oppose it?
But much more importantly, what is YOUR OWN view in the matter?

Well you seem to have touched on it a bit, but could you please verify whether the ideas expressed especially in your last post (Wednesday, 6 April 2022 9:50:31 PM) are indeed your own and not ascribed to Ayn Rand?

For example, "Enjoyment pursued as a primary value has a hollow core".
And if this is your personal conviction rather than Rand's, then you also need to present your own notion of "Enjoyment" because as much as it may seem clear to you, different people, believe me, can in fact understand this term ("Enjoyment") very differently.

Ayn Rand's ideas are tools in the box- but need to be taken in the appropriate context. Apart from that I believe I've answered your question Yuyutsu. I'm satisfied that you found the answer as you say "interesting". Re-read my previous answer if you are unsure- but I believe your follow-up questions are inclusive. The limitations of language.

I've included a link to the text of Atlas Shrugged if you need to check the exact wording of my quotes/ paraphrasing- you can do a search from the browser- you said that you read the book so you're somewhat familiar with the story- though you may have read it some time ago.

As I said I have been unable to find the exact or close comparable quote that I remember (the book is 1000 pages long) but I have given evidence that Ayn Rand believed it to be true "Atlas Shrugged talked about putting pleasure before productivity in contradiction to nature". As to whether you consider my evidence to be good evidence I leave to yourself and others to judge.

Dear Canem Malum,

Yes, it was quite a few decades ago when I read Atlas Shrugged (and two other of Ayn Rand's books).

«I have given evidence that Ayn Rand believed it to be true "Atlas Shrugged talked about putting pleasure before productivity in contradiction to nature»

I think that she placed intellectual satisfaction higher than any other pleasure and higher than productivity, but I doubt she placed ordinary sensual and emotional pleasures above productivity.

Yuyutsu said- "I think that she placed intellectual satisfaction higher than any other pleasure and higher than productivity, but I doubt she placed ordinary sensual and emotional pleasures above productivity. "

Answer- Possibly.

Ayn Rand said that you have to do something before you can feel good. In Atlas Shrugged- the 20th Century Motor Factory inherited by the heirs introduced "from those with the ability to those with the need". They talked of introducing many altruistic policies- a new school for the workers- expensive hand made lace curtains in the windows of every workers new cottages- but not focusing on profitable policies-inevitably closure occurred- owners pointed the finger for the closure on others greed- rather than stupid policies.

In the book the moochers belief was that anybody can run a factory or business if they are just given the chance by the greedy- but when they inherited a factory they always found a way to mess it up.

Ayn Rand's point was that capable people will find a way if the government stays out of the way- and incapable people will find a way to mess it up even with a lot of help.

Incapable people will look at capable people and see the end results of all their work- the expensive and powerful new cars, the clothes, the jewelry, the women, the enormous house- and they will covet it without understanding that standing behind all these superficialities stands an empire that contributes to the livelihoods of thousands of people in a hierarchy that represents their contributions.

Ayn Rand- says through the mouth of Francisco D'Anconia that it's not enough just to get money by stealing it- because you'll just lose it again- you'll corrupt the community that you get it from- rendering your "wealth" meaningless.

She said that the source of true wealth is in the mind- and this is something that cannot- in a sense- be stolen- only given away wisely or unwisely.

The question being why would a great and wise thinker act against wisdom.

Rand gives many many examples of how you must create wealth- which involves sacrifice- before experiencing the pleasure of wealth. Of course there is some subtlety here.

Rand believed that societies infrastructure and life itself is created by the wise.