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The Forum > Article Comments > This is the politics the left made based on threats of power, not peaceful persuasion > Comments

This is the politics the left made based on threats of power, not peaceful persuasion : Comments

By Graham Young, published 14/1/2021

I guess like me you've been more than a little shocked at the Republican 'insurrection' in the United States. But for me it has been a double shock. Not only am I shocked, but I'm shocked that I'm shocked.

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Well, the US does have a history of violence, from the war of independence, to the civil war, to race wars, and to interference in foreign countries it thought it could make 'just like them'. There is also their fascination with guns, particularly unnecessary- to-civilians military weapons, and shooting people. The death penalty is popular still: electrocution, gassing, lethal injections, keeping people locked up for years before killing them. And don't forget run of the mill cops approaching traffic law offenders with an aimed pistol.

Americans are violent and, they are so hypocritical when violence is redirected at them, as with the Capitol disturbance. The left has been rioting and looting ever since Trump was elected; now it's all shock and horror when the right does it. And, there is no doubt of the rottenness of the judiciary which refuses to listen to cries for a proper investigation into electoral fraud - fraud that America does as well as any banana republic in Latin America.

It's probably well overdue for the right to use left tactics. As in Australia, the right is usually too gentlemanly to treat the left the way the left treats it. The Capitol affair should be seen as a 'we aren't putting up with it anymore' warning.
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 14 January 2021 8:29:30 AM
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Ttbn,

Yes, the Capitol disturbance, or slight perturbation, was a bit of a concern. But not any worse than a speeding cyclist really.

In his last week, Trumpf has had the distinction of executing a crazy woman, the first woman killed in nearly seventy years. What a hero.

I wonder what's in store this weekend and up to the Inauguration of President Biden who, I recall, gained some seven or eight million more votes than Trumpf. I hope the CCTV cameras will be going flat-out.

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Thursday, 14 January 2021 9:30:17 AM
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Dear GrahamY,

A little self serving of you mate. I do agree that Twitter banning Trump is quite problematic and I don't support it but like the Murdoch press it is a private company.

However unlike the Murdoch press attacks on Andrews for instance Twitter is not actively savaging Trump at every occasion. Indeed Murdoch has effectively de-voiced Labour politicians for many years now.

Political voices can also be withdrawn by pollies themselves. The PM's absolute refusal to appear on Virginia Trioli's program on Melbourne's 774 is a case in point.

So your high horse edicts are a little disingenuous I'm afraid.

Also the case you are trying to make that these protests are just a reaction to the left wing protests conveniently disregards what went down in the very first year of Trump's presidency.

“Nearly alone among the nation’s elected leaders, President Trump saw a nobility of purpose in the fiery procession that began a weekend of street fights in Charlottesville, Va. White nationalists hoisted tiki torches that recalled the horrifying imagery of the Ku Klux Klan. They revived an old Nazi chant–“Blood and Soil”–which had been silenced in 1945 with American blood on German soil. And they mixed in a new anti-Semitic taunt, “Jews will not replace us,” meant to declare unity of the white race.”
http://time.com/4904281/bigots-boosted-by-the-bully-pulpit-charlottesville/

That people came out in reaction to that is hardly surprising. This could have gotten far uglier had Trump had the intelligence of a Nixon for instance. His incompetence has been a blessing in many ways.

Anyway I did enjoy Friendly Jordies take this morning.
http://youtu.be/KfoTVC5q8Q8

As I said in another thread, I will miss him.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Thursday, 14 January 2021 9:31:29 AM
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Forgetting American’s national character for a moment, but still on the Capitol incident, what the hell did the bed wetters expect with:

A democratically elected president constantly subjected to abuse
Mainstream media lies
False accusations of collusion with Russia
Early impeachment based on lies
Big Tech lending a hand in elections
No or very little establishment condemnation of BLM and Antifa riots, looting and burning by the Left
Nutters like Nancy Pelosi
Voting corruption acknowledged by 70% of Americans, including Democrats
Refusal of courts to investigate the claims, based not on evidence but on procedural grounds
FBI, CIA, Justice Department involved in undermining Trump
Constitutional norms ignored by the establishment during Trumps term in office.

None of this will be of any interest to the left wing cranks here and elsewhere, but it needs to said in the hope that there are still some sane people out there.
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 14 January 2021 10:13:32 AM
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Free speech is one thing, hate speech another! And truth is as different to lies as night is to day! Those that stirred this riot did so because that's how they intended to stay in power!

When we see this sort of overreach we need to call it ou not try and justify it with spin and BS!

This was not peaceful protest but armed insurrection and this lynch mob, for that what they were! were sent locked and loaded to the bastion of freedom To hang Mike Pence and take hostages!

All at the behest of a power addicted lunatic? Who reportedly sleeps with a copy of Mien Kampf on his nightstand?

Time to call a spade a spade and stop with the subservient spit likle brown-nosing.

Fascism is was and remains the creature of the extreme lunatic right!

I thought we'd gotten past this lunacy and looked at the different exchange of ideas as good or bad and gave them up or down, not this fiction of left or right ideologies that require you lock your mind in a box and jump when the glories leader asks for it!

This BS of divide and conquer serves nobody in the end and never ever ends well! Those that incite mob violence whatever their political persuasion, need to take responsibility and be held to account for their actions!

Be it a cop kneeling on a black man's neck until he died or a leader that lost who cannot stand aside and accept the will of the voters. And in spite of widespread voter suppression and republican gerrymanders.

This creature needs to be impeached so he can never ever again hold or profit from public office!

And then stand in the dock to answer as you and I would, if the boot was on the other foot, to answer for his alleged unpardonable criminal acts?
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Thursday, 14 January 2021 11:18:34 AM
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Free speech is one thing, hate speech another!
Alan B,
So, how to you suggest the Left should address curbing hate speech ?
Posted by individual, Thursday, 14 January 2021 11:30:35 AM
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individual,

If I was to say something like "I hate the Chinese because they gave the world the coronavirus pandemic." would that be classed as hate speech?

A Yes or No answer will suffice. I don't want a half page dissertation with web links to articles and papers from around the world.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Thursday, 14 January 2021 12:13:52 PM
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Alan B.,

I should have directed my question above to you.

What do you say?
Posted by Mr Opinion, Thursday, 14 January 2021 12:16:06 PM
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Village Idiot,

Yes.

If you mean just the CCP and scientific establishment, and wait until there is some proof of their connivance, then the answer to your question is still 'Yes'.

The Chinese people should never be equated with the totalitarian regime of the CCP.

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Thursday, 14 January 2021 12:36:19 PM
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Foul-Mouth,

I use the term 'Chinese' to mean the Chinese nation-state being China so I do no regard it as hate speech even if it does have the word 'hate' in the sentence.

'Hate' in this context simply means dislike intensely and is a description of the way I feel which I should be at liberty to express without conviction.

Again you jump to the defence of the Chinese (the nation-state) in order to distract our attention away from the actions of the Beijing mob. Obviously you want us not to think that the Chinese (the nation-state) is not responsible for the coronavirus pandemic.

Like Chris Lewis you want people to believe that the CCP is just a handful of old senile old codgers instead of the world's biggest political party comprising 91 million people and supported by 800 million other loyal citizens who would fight to the death to protect their nation-state.

What is your code name? I'm thinking it's something like Guangzhou Joe.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Thursday, 14 January 2021 12:57:09 PM
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I've never understood the sense of entitlement of those on the right, Never understood why good ideas could be rejected because they came from the left, rather than because they lacked merit!

As for gun-toting hoons in America? On a per-capita basis, there are as many guns in Switzerland! Yet only one mass shooting!

The USA? One a day! These were the same (the Jews are not going to replace us) armed hoodlums who are threatening even more armed insurrection.

Peaceful protest needs no weapons! Those who want to win power need to persuade with logic and reason then perform all they promised! Not with divide and rule thuggery!

If those on the right wish to remain relevant? They need to embrace true equality! And learn to listen to what those they represent want, not the corporations that fund the election contest!

And are never ever served by the spin doctors that come out to say white is black and the right is left when the truth is as obvious as the nose on your face! As they try to justify the unjustifiable, forgive the unforgivable, pardon the unpardonable!

All human progress has been achieved on the back of robust debate and the exchange of ideas!

And the most important voice in the room has invariably been the dissenting one!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Thursday, 14 January 2021 1:14:27 PM
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What is not understood by US citizens is that the consent of the public has been lost.
The politicians need to take very serious note of this.

What is the "Consent of the Public" ?
It is when a decision such as an election is made then all the public
no matter what side they favoured accepts the result.
It is clear that Public Consent has been withheld.
It means all restraints are off and anything betweem demos and revolution
are on the cards.
Posted by Bazz, Thursday, 14 January 2021 1:27:00 PM
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Reading what this move against Trump is about it is called insurrection
and called for by the use of the words "Fight for your country etc"
Seems a bit of exaggeration to me and would not stand up in any
normal court, but then the US Congress is not a court, hmmm ?

The penalty could be death for insurrection when imposed by a court.
What a mess !
Posted by Bazz, Thursday, 14 January 2021 1:35:52 PM
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Bazz,

A better and preferred term is political legitimation.

And in the case of Trump's Insurrection of January 6 it might be seen as a contested narrative between the winners and losers in the US election.

Ask Foul-Mouth although be prepared to get the old Marxist version from him because he has to give you the version Beijing wants you to have.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Thursday, 14 January 2021 1:42:59 PM
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Hate speech is something like reviling Jews for being born Jewish Or homosexuals for being born different!

Or claiming something was stolen when it wasn't, then extorting blind followers to go somewhere to main and kill to get that which you didn't win, back!

Or aiming racial abuse at a sporting champion! Just to get your twisted, alcohol-soaked rocks off!

Hate speech is that which whips up a mindless mob then sends them like an aimed and loaded weapon to go lynch someone, smashing, looting and breaking property as they go. And reminiscent of, the night of broken glass!

I'll never be able to forget the face of that tortured cop as he was wedged in that doorway and his anguished cries for help, as his ribs were slowly crushed into his lungs? And still, the mindless mob pushed relentlessly from about 2 pm, for hours! Chanting as they pushed, hang Mike Pence! That and the above, is how I define hate speech Mr O. Ok?

Have to be suffering a very severe case of, Sargent Shulz Syndrome, not to see, hear and recognise it! When even blind Freddy can see it!

It's vocalised/expressed mindless hate aimed at difference, without just cause! Or even a scent or whiff of credible proof!

And to be clear! I see nothing in the CCP to commend or even slightly like it!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Thursday, 14 January 2021 2:07:56 PM
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nice post Alan.
Posted by Chris Lewis, Thursday, 14 January 2021 2:54:13 PM
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Dear Bazz,

"You don’t concede when there’s theft involved. Our country has had enough and we will not take it any more,” he declared. “And we fight. We fight like hell and if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.” Trump.

This is how he excused their actions:

“These are the things that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long.”

“Remember this day forever!”

Insurrection as defined by the Constitution is "rebellion against the authority of the government of the United States,"

A lot of people would probably think this was enough to have the incitement of insurrection change to be at least tested by a full investigation. If Trump is deemed not guilty of it then fine, but the process should be allowed to run its course.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Thursday, 14 January 2021 3:10:24 PM
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Well said Alan B.

http://youtu.be/QVZvp-Dv0gg?t=1m13s
Posted by plantagenet, Thursday, 14 January 2021 3:43:23 PM
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The only thing I am surprised at is that it has taken so long for the right to even begin to fight back.

The left need to be a bit careful, or they could bring some serious justice on their heads. Those who are slow to serious anger are likely to become very angry when it finally happens.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 14 January 2021 5:11:59 PM
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PeterC. This is an excellent article covering a many very, very important points, including plenty from over the years. I have no doubt that the Democrats carried out a massive, massive, massive and very blatant fraud against the people of the United States including the Republicans and President Donald Trump. The loud Democrats, main stream media and others deliberately misrepresented - amongst other things - what President Donald Trump said which was NOT an incitement to riot in the Capitol, while the damage etc appears to have been greatly influenced and carried out largely by Antifa and BLM who appear to be largely untouched by the police etc while they also greatly damage cities etc when acting as thugs for the Democrats.

That the Democrats, main stream media and others are able to shift the blame for riots, serious damage in cities etc and do their very best to convince people that President Donald Trump and most Republicans - excluding the RINOS, Republicans in name only - from the Democrats and be very wrongly awarded the Presidency after the very fraudulent election, strongly indicates that the future for all Americans will be very, very poor. There is no doubt that future for all Americans and also the West, will be very poor - and God help America - unless Presidency Donald Trump continues as President.
Posted by PeterC, Thursday, 14 January 2021 5:18:26 PM
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surprised at is that it has taken so long for the right to even begin to fight back.
Hasbeen,
I'm also baffled but then again, no-one could have guessed how low the Left was capable of going ! They're several times worse than the worst of the extreme right !
Posted by individual, Thursday, 14 January 2021 5:22:17 PM
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Donald Trump bravely set out to “drain the swamp”.

Sadly for America, he was confronted, and in the end muzzled, by a multi-headed swamp monster (aptly described by ttbn) that hoodwinked a small majority of those who voted, to vote against him.
Posted by Raycom, Thursday, 14 January 2021 5:30:28 PM
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So ..... not a single Republican election official anywhere in the country ? In tens of thousands of voting centres ? Not one to blow the gaff ? Not even one Democratic election official with any sort of conscience ?

And every aspect of this cunning plan was carried out perfectly ?

Brilliant !

An example of 'if it conceivably could be done, it was done. And done perfectly, no hitches whatever.'

And not only that, folks, but everything covered up so perfectly that there is not a shred of evidence.

Really ?

Or, of course, it's all horse sh!t :)

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Thursday, 14 January 2021 5:56:13 PM
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We've all seen the videos, heard the words frothing from the wannabe, dictator's mouth! As he directed them up the road to Capital hill!

And again as he claimed that none of his supporters would resort to violence to claim something that wasn't! Threw them under the bus!

Guess even he has suddenly realised he is to be held to account for what followed and what he stands to lose. His million dollar a year pension and generous travel entitlements? Suddenly decided to disown the mob?

Hasbeen and a few other blame-shifters are part of a problem served by assumed entitlement! And seem to believe they have some sort of rights that are their exclusive domain!

Get angry Hasbeen then tell us what it is you are angry about? Say that we don't accept your par for the course BS, thought the sun shone out of a wannabe dictator's arse?

Are like the aforementioned, are an entirely irrelevant old demented fool, who like that rampaging mob, are angry as your entirely undeserved entitlements are stripped away?

Get angry, kick the door down, bash the wife and kids, kick the dog and anybody who dares to tell you you are wrong? And when you wake up in hospital and nobody comes to visit? Get angry with those trying to save your worthless hide?

Me? I'd let you stew in your juice until those men in white coats came, fastened you into a straight jacket and put you in a padded room until you could at least explain who you're angry at and for what verifiable reason?

Perhaps it's the truth-tellers that get you so riled or perhaps the face in the mirror and what that man did, said and stood for?

Go your hardest, just don't expect the courtesy of a reply, as I've wasted too much time on an incorrigible lost cause, already!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Thursday, 14 January 2021 6:13:38 PM
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just don't expect the courtesy of a reply,
Alan B,
That's exactly the kind of reply we expect from you !
Posted by individual, Thursday, 14 January 2021 6:17:39 PM
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Dear PeterC,

You write: "I have no doubt that the Democrats carried out a massive, massive, massive and very blatant fraud against the people of the United States including the Republicans and President Donald Trump."

What rot. How about a single substantiated instance of fraud from the Democrats. I understand your belief system drives your reality but on the whole facts drive mine. In all that "massive, massive and very blatant fraud" you should at least be able to furnish one example.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Thursday, 14 January 2021 6:43:38 PM
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Hi SteeleRedux, you obviously have not closely followed the claimed frauds etc or the many allegations of fraud or the allegations that the make believe justice system did not want to deal with the allegations apart from dismissing them on a procedural basis instead of dealing with the fraud allegations as they are expected to and should do and are paid to do. As you have not followed the many allegations so far, there is no point in my wasting my time pointing out any allegations to you.
Posted by PeterC, Thursday, 14 January 2021 7:49:03 PM
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I heard the Queen of Venom say that Trump was 'clearly a threat to America' but she failed to pull up a 'clear" example of proof ! And, what's worse, no-one even blinked ! Now that is a 'clear' example of hate speech & the immediate effect of it !
Posted by individual, Thursday, 14 January 2021 9:31:31 PM
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Dear PeterC,

I asked for a single substantiated instance of fraud and instead you waffle on about "claimed" and "alledged" fraud.

When you clearly have nothing that is a good time usually to come clean.

Your cupboard is bare isn't it.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Thursday, 14 January 2021 10:51:27 PM
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.

Dear Graham,

.

You wrote :

1. « He didn't urge people to break into the Capitol, he told them to walk peacefully down. 300,000 walking past the seat of government would be a powerful, conventional demonstration of popular support, particularly given that DC is in the middle of a record cold snap.»
.

The Impeachment Resolution describes it differently :

« President Trump, addressed a crowd at the Ellipse in Washington, D.C. There, he reiterated false claims that "we won this election, and we won it by a landslide." He also willfully made statements that, in context, encouraged — and foreseeably resulted in — lawless action at the Capitol, such as: "if you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country anymore." Thus incited by President Trump, members of the crowd he had addressed, in an attempt to, among other objectives, interfere with the Joint Session's solemn constitutional duty to certify the results of the 2020 Presidential election, unlawfully breached and vandalized the Capitol, injured and killed law enforcement personnel, menaced Members of Congress, the Vice President, and Congressional personnel, and engaged in other violent, deadly, destructive and seditious acts.

President Trump's conduct on January 6, 2021, followed his prior efforts to subvert and obstruct the certification of the results of the 2020 Presidential election. Those prior efforts included a phone call on January 2, 2021, during which President Trump urged the secretary of state of Georgia, Brad Raffensperger, to "find" enough votes to overturn the Georgia Presidential election results and threatened Secretary Raffensperger if he failed to do so.

In all this, President Trump gravely endangered the security of the United States and its institutions of Government. He threatened the integrity of the democratic system, interfered with the peaceful transition of power, and imperilled a coequal branch of Government. He thereby betrayed his trust as President, to the manifest injury of the people of the United States » :

http://www.npr.org/sections/trump-impeachment-effort-live-updates/2021/01/11/955631105/impeachment-resolution-cites-trumps-incitement-of-capitol-insurrection?t=1610639908164

.

(Continued …)

.
Posted by Banjo Paterson, Friday, 15 January 2021 6:18:11 AM
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.

(Continued …)

.

2. « ... even banning Trump from Twitter »

Twitter Inc. declared :

« In the context of horrific events this week, we made it clear on Wednesday that additional violations of the Twitter Rules would potentially result in this very course of action.

We [subsequently] assessed [two Trump tweets] and determined that they were highly likely to encourage and inspire people to replicate the criminal acts that took place at the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021 » :

http://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/suspension.html
.

3. « … and Facebook »

Facebook declared :

« We believe the risks of allowing President Trump to continue to use our service during this period are simply too great, so we are extending the block we have placed on his Facebook and Instagram accounts indefinitely and for at least the next two weeks » :

http://about.fb.com/news/2021/01/responding-to-the-violence-in-washington-dc/
.

« President Donald Trump and others filed and lost over 60 lawsuits contesting election processes, vote counting, and the vote certification process in multiple states, including Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.

Nearly all the suits were dismissed or dropped due to lack of evidence. Judges, lawyers, and other observers described the suits as "frivolous" and "without merit".

Trump, his attorneys, and his supporters falsely asserted widespread election fraud in public statements, though few such assertions were made in court. » :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-election_lawsuits_related_to_the_2020_United_States_presidential_election
.

All that said, Graham, allow me to add that deciphering the enigma encrypted language of Donald Trump is no easy task. I should not be surprised if he sometimes can’t even find the key himself – so often he contradicts himself !

Truth, facts and belief are all interchangeable. They are all the same thing so far as Trump is concerned. But they vary according to the circumstances, the person whom he is addressing, and whatever his objective happens to be at that particular moment.

The unique key to understanding Donald Trump is that he is a pathological liar. That is the only thing that is certain. It is all you can count on.

Lest we forget !

.
Posted by Banjo Paterson, Friday, 15 January 2021 6:50:10 AM
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PeterC Hi and dream on SteeleRedux. Here is a web site - https://richardsonpost.com/ - containing a wealth of information on the massive, massive massive election fraud and also on the activities of Hunter Biden who is Joe Biden’s son etc.

All of this very important information has been hidden by the mainstream media which I have no doubt have and will lose thousands/millions of subscribers because they buried this very important information which all Americans and others need to know.
Posted by PeterC, Friday, 15 January 2021 9:15:22 AM
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Dear PeterC,

Take a deep breath mate. All of this has been shoved in front of the courts in the 60 odd cases by the cry baby Trump team. Many of these were presided over by Trump appointed judges and they have virtually all been tossed because there was absolutely no basis for them.

So you expect me to take the musings of some blogger and give them more credence than those decisions?

Only the most cultish follower of Trump could do that.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Friday, 15 January 2021 9:45:24 AM
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.

Dear Graham,

.

Everything Donald Trump says, or writes is questionable. Much is false.

Unfortunately, we have no way of knowing how many of the 74,222,958 people who voted for him at the 2020 presidential election were aware of this.

According to YouGov, an international research group based in London, a poll conducted shortly after the election indicated that only 15% of Trump voters viewed Biden as being legitimately elected – even though he won the popular vote by 7 060 140 votes The rest, 85%, claimed he did not legitimately win.

Why ? Ignorance is the logical explanation that comes to mind.

Voters make their decisions in a variety of ways. Some choose to focus on only a couple of issues that reflect their own self-interests, some simply side with a particular party that they feel represents their values, and some choose not to vote. While most are uninformed, many are misinformed because they simply let others inform them without studying matters in detail themselves. Many choose to ignore new information that contrasts with their current views because they reject fundamental change.

With Donald Trump, many probably simply allowed themselves to be manipulated by the master manipulator that he is, and all the antics that his armada of lawyers got up to in and out of the courts with the full backing of the Republican Party and the Republican members of the US Congress.

At least, Donald Trump has had the merit of holding up a mirror to us all – and what we see is very unpleasant.

As the Pew Research Centre’s 2018 Liberal Democracy’s Crisis Report pointed out :

« People generally like representative democracy in theory, but many are frustrated with it in practise. They say that their vote does not give them an adequate voice in national politics, that elected officials do not care what people like them think and that average citizens could do a better job dealing with their country’s problems »

Many working-class people embraced Trump for president because he seemed to understand their sense of being left behind.

.
Posted by Banjo Paterson, Friday, 15 January 2021 9:45:33 AM
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Pathetic.
Oh oh look what they made us do.
You rwnj make me sick.
Posted by mikk, Friday, 15 January 2021 12:08:02 PM
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Graham Y,

I'm not shocked that not only are you shocked, but that you are shocked that you are shocked.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Friday, 15 January 2021 12:27:08 PM
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//even banning Trump from Twitter.//

Gasp! Shock! Horror!

Just out of interest... how many people have you, Graham, personally banned from this particular forum? Either because they 'violated the rules' or because you just didn't like the cut of their gib?

Given that this without doubt the single most censorious website I've ever encountered, I'd say a whole [remove the profanity]ing bunch. Except of course I can't [remove the profanity]ing say that, because this is the most [remove the profanity]ing censorious website outside of China. Seriously, it's getting to the point where it's a bit of [remove the profanity]ing joke.

So I don't see a problem with a public forum like Twitter banning users that have flouted their rules anymore than I do with Onliine Opinion banning people who flout their rules: your/their website, your/their rules. A man's speech is still free... they just can't share it on a given platform unless they adhere to said platform's rules. What is your reasonable objection to a position you have steadfastly adhered to for at least 15 years?

//Perhaps if Rowling had her time over again she might realise that the real risk of fascism is from the left, not from the right//

And who is surprised that Graham favours the Death Eaters? Who's your favourite, Graham? I'm gonna guess it's one of the ones instrumental in releasing the Dementors from Azkaban. You strike me as man who is in favour of the notion of Dementors in general.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Friday, 15 January 2021 5:45:31 PM
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//In 2021 we have to start rediscovering that each individual has unique worth and inalienable rights//

Under US law, corporations can be treated as individuals with unique worth and inalienable rights. Twitter has (limited) unique worth and inalienable rights. I don't know exactly how inalienable their rights are because corporation law is complicated. But if I want to
a) Borrow books from my local library: I must take up membership, get a library card, and FOLLOW THEIR RULES. If I don't follow their rules, they can revoke my membership. And rightly so: libraries are sacred.
b) Attend my local club: I must take up membership, obey general RSA restrictions in my jurisdiction, adhere to the dress code and FOLLOW THEIR RULES. If I don't follow their rules, they can revoke my membership. And rightly so: I don't want deadbeats in my club.
c) Post on online opinion: I must provide my email adress, and in theory I'm required to follow your rules, although I note that there is a lot of leeway regarding those rules if I fake-post under the name 'runner', kiss your arse a lot, and pretend to be tory.
d) Post on twitter: pretty much the same rules as OLO, but they don't censor my (remove the profanity)ing posts because it's not 1941 anymore and nobody without a very small penis cares about [remove the profanity]ing 'naughty' words these days.

So an obvious soultion presents itself:
OLO becomes less biased, less censorious, and opens iteslf up as the new Twitter or Parler or whatever. But that would require a Grand Poobah who is willing to act in exactly the way he hasn't for at least 30 years. I'm not going to hold my breath...
Posted by Toni Lavis, Friday, 15 January 2021 5:56:34 PM
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Dear Banjo Paterson,

I get the attraction. I have listened to extended pieces of Trump speeches, some lesser known ones included, and there would be certain life circumstances which if I had found myself within he probably would have got my vote.

As someone whose objection to the one sided free trade deals which Australia perused under both stripes of government (deals which basically sacrificed our manufacturing sector to appease our agricultural one} to have someone promising to either rewrite them or toss them entirely would have been quite attractive.

Trump markedly increased federal funding to black universities and he substantially reformed Veterans Affairs via the Mission Act in 2018.

“In the 2019 Veterans of Foreign Wars Our Care Report, 6,900 veterans were surveyed and they noticed big improvement in VA health care due to the Mission Act. Nearly three-quarters, 74%, reported seeing improvements at their local VA.”
http://www.militarytimes.com/opinion/commentary/2020/08/26/president-trump-has-been-a-champion-for-americas-veteran-community/

To a union member seeing American jobs disappearing over seas having someone commit not only to stopping the drift but reversing it would have been very appealing.

As to clearing the swamp there is not doubt in the world he did the opposite during his term, but he at least articulated there was a swamp and shone a light on it.

It is just the rest of the baggage, the nepotism, corruption, and serial liar aspects that were ultimately rejected by the American voter.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Friday, 15 January 2021 6:46:25 PM
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I note many people dismiss the possibility that there was widescale fraud How do they explain the thousands of sworn affidavits by poll watchers of irregular activities and the Dominion servers used in all the swing counties are from the the same company who are facing a fraud case in the Philippines for switching votes in the early hours of the morning and it has been proven by a forensic examination of the machines. In addition there is a court case in Italy where a judge has accepted a deposition by a data technician who alleges he was the one called into the American offices in Rome to actually carry out a late night switch of Trump votes to Biden. As you can see by the Big Tech rush to silence Trump and eliminate any reference to Fraud there are very powerful forces who do not want Trump to continue in the Presidency He has made many enemies .
Posted by Truth Seeker, Friday, 15 January 2021 7:50:31 PM
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Dear Truth Seeker,

You sir are insane.

There are not thousands of sworn affidavits.

Dominion machines have repeatedly found to be sound and there has been zero examples fraud associated with them by inspectors.

"...assertions that machines can be hacked, votes were dumped and test ballots can be counted are false. The federal government and election experts discovered no election fraud on the part of Dominion Voting Systems or its voting machines."
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/01/14/fact-check-dominion-voting-machines-create-ballots-only-audits-tests/3973030001/

Trump was a corrupt, bullying, nepotistic, venal, incompetent leader which is why he ended up 7,000,000 votes behind his rival.

Get over it.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Friday, 15 January 2021 8:28:37 PM
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.

Dear SteeleRedux,

.

Many thanks for those interesting observations.

Trump has certainly put the boot into some anthills during his four years as president of the world’s most powerful country – and the results have not always been totally negative – quite the contrary. So many countries have been feeding off the beast, sheltering under its wing and taking advantage of the situation far too long.

Time is up. We’ve all got the message now. We all have to stand on our own two feet and look after ourselves. If we need help, we have to offer something equivalent in return. It’s take it or leave it. A bit brutal, but if we want to be independent, that’s what we have to do.
.

Wikipedia has just posted an extensive article that provides additional information on how the Capitol insurrection was planned, with indications of some of the people who helped organise it :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_storming_of_the_United_States_Capitol

.
Posted by Banjo Paterson, Saturday, 16 January 2021 3:22:51 AM
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Drivel and nonsense, Graham. I know OLO (you) like to publish out there conspiratorial claims in support of Trump's attempt to steal the election he lost by a huge margin, but you really picked the wrong side of the wrong issue in this attempt to disparage the legitimate views and legitimate votes of Americans.

Lefties made them do it - is the weakest excuse for the vile and illegal actions that an incompetent and amoral US President's lies incited.
Posted by Ken Fabian, Saturday, 16 January 2021 9:18:59 AM
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Its rather fascinating that people who fell for the whole Russia collusion hoax stories now demand absolute proof of the stolen election assertions.

We have people here who fervently believed that Russia stole the election for Trump. People who believed and still believe that Trump was 'owned' by Putin. We have in plantagenet possibly the last person on earth who still believes the Moscow pee rubbish.

Myriad TDS suffers believed all this without even the slightest evidence. As the Steel dossier was analysed, as the Mueller probe was exposed, as the lies of people like Nadler were revealed, as anti-Trump conspirators were forced to flee Washington so as to avoid charges, still the TDS crowd believed.

The absence of evidence didn't inhibit the belief. And not just absence of evidence, but all the evidence pointed in the exact opposite direction. Still they held fervently to their TDS security blanket.

Now these same people demand lay-down-misere, hand in the cookie jar proof of electoral fraud. Well that hasn't happened yet and probably will never happen. Much of the evidence of absentee vote fraud has already been destroyed. Any software that shifted votes has long since been 'amended'. People who voted twice have been lost to the system and indeed allowed to do it again in Georgia. Bulk dumped votes are now co-mingled with legitimate votes.

So no proof. Of coarse we occasionally see the man behind the curtain as when Xiden said the quiet part out loud..(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQVWSlyE9xQ) but the type of proof those who needed no proof of collusion now demand, doesn't and likely won't exist.

But...if you're looking for balance of probabilities evidence, that's an entirely different matter. Vote dumps. Counting happening after counting stopped. Unbelievably high numbers of absentee votes approved. Unseemly haste in destroying evidence.

Trump won the vote but lost the count. Proof doesn't and won't exist. But tons of circumstantial evidence does exist.

Now proof or otherwise doesn't matter. Xi's lap-dog will be president next week. And a gigantic minority of voters will believe he is illegitimate. That's the fate of a once great democracy.
Posted by mhaze, Sunday, 17 January 2021 8:31:13 AM
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One often worries about the direction of supposed 'conservative' and/or centre right politics, when respresented by the LNP in Oz, the GOP and the UK Tories, mostly directed by Koch linked think tanks for economic policies and whiffy issues emerging from white nationalists.

While promoting radical right libertarian socio-economics, far right white nativism inc. the 'great replacement theory' or Anglo exceptionalism, (evangelical) Christianity, 'values', fossil fuels and culture wars that seem to require constant but misinformed attacks on the almost mythical 'left' for validation, while even deeming the centre right to be 'left'?

No wonder so many suppporters seem paranoid and open to conspiracy theories when the 'right' or autocrats, whether Erdogan, Trump or Orban play the martyr and the victim; putting illiberal losers on a pedestal because this is what voters, think, they want.... like Australia backgrounded by media biased to the right while both denying access to and ignoring the supposed noisy voices of the 'left'?

A US/Oz (dual citizen) news editor commented how clever Howard was all those years ago appealing to middle class 'losers' motivated by white nativism.
Posted by Andras Smith, Tuesday, 19 January 2021 3:25:56 AM
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