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The Forum > Article Comments > Abortion is morally justifiable > Comments

Abortion is morally justifiable : Comments

By Peter Bowden, published 5/1/2021

There is no explicit statement about abortion in the Old Testament or the New Testament versions of the Bible .Then why do Catholics, and many Christian fundamentalists, oppose abortion?

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I suspect that one could use some of the arguments in the article to argue against alimony and child support- which of course wouldn't be accepted because the whole debate is about "feminist power". Perhaps the concept of females having power in it's approapriate context is valid in a sense. The test of a concept seems to be how well it holds up against other seemingly opposing principles. Obviously there are a few stakeholders involved in the decision to terminate a foetus- including the family the child the wider community, institutions, ideology, religion, ethics and truth and meaning itself.

In a supporting family or extended family the woman isn't the only one burdened with an "unwanted child". Of course given that she is the one carrying it has certain realities.

If the women goes against community expectations- she might similarly be unable to expect support from that same community- given she has rejected the community.

Different communities will perhaps have different equally valid ways of dealing with these issues- "cultural relativism"- disagreements between philosophy's perhaps indicate less about truth than about the nature of reality- which is a type of truth ;)

Reciprocity seems to be a fundamental principle of community
Posted by Canem Malum, Saturday, 9 January 2021 12:30:39 PM
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Dear Truth Seeker,

«I agree with you It is God who authors all life but the act of abortion ends the life God's breath allowed»

The act of abortion ends a session of the biological aspect of life.

Still a sin more often than not, but for those who believe that there is no life beyond the physical/biological and nothing remains and continues past biological death, this must be looked upon even more gravely.

---

Dear JP,

«So which is it – do human beings have genuine free will or does God actually control all that happens?»

If I am to answer your question pedantically, strictly following your very choice of words rather than the spirit of your question, then I must respond that human beings, being just a biological machine, have no will at all.

However, we undeniably experience free will.
Like happiness, sadness, joy, anger, boredom, dreams, etc., free will is a genuine MENTAL EXPERIENCE.

In other words, free will is neither false, nor the absolute truth: it is a true experience.
And like all mental experiences, free will is also God's gift.

While our mind and the feelings and experiences therein influence our body, only God actually controls all that happens.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Saturday, 9 January 2021 11:46:42 PM
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Yuyutsu – hmmm. Your reply seems to be the double-talk of a Calvinist.

If, as you say, “God actually controls all that happens” then, if the words we use make any sense, any “experience” we have of free will is only an illusion.

Just like when the magician creates the illusion of cutting the woman in half, but does not actually do so, then the illusion of free will is not free will at all – it is just a trick.

If free will is to be a meaningful concept then it must mean that human beings can actually act according to their own will, i.e. act against God’s will and/or the physical laws of the universe, at least at times. If you don’t believe that is possible then you should not say that people have free will. To do so is to be misleading.

If you haven’t read it previously you may like to read my OLO article on free will and determinism:
https://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=17152
Posted by JP, Sunday, 10 January 2021 10:05:55 AM
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Interesting answer JP. Kudos.
Posted by Canem Malum, Sunday, 10 January 2021 11:46:54 AM
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Dear JP,

I have read and commented on your article from 2015 and while I still generally agree with my comment there, I have studied more since then, nearly 6 years ago.

Illusion - this is the term used in Buddhism, so if also Calvinists consider experience as an illusion then I have learnt something new today.

But Hindu philosophy differs from Buddhism on this point and to explain this I need to introduce a new term: "Mithya".

In Western thought, every statement can only be either true or false, but Hinduism recognises a third case in between, Mythia, which I could best translate as "relative truth". Mythia is very different from "illusion" since the latter is obviously false: you see a mirage in the desert but there's no water there; the woman seems cut in half by the magician but that is not actually so.

So here are some classical examples of Mythia:

1. Seeing a clay-pot, you say "here is a pot": this is relatively true but it is not the absolute truth.
Sooner or later, the pot will break, but clay will remain and then it could even be reshaped into a clay-plate or a clay-doll. Thus "this is a pot" is relatively true, relative to utility and time, but the deeper underlying truth of it is, clay!
(in modern times, of course, we can further break the clay into silicon, aluminum, magnesium, oxygen, hydrogen, etc., even further into protons, neutrons and electrons, then "clay" would be the relative-truth/Mithya, and the subatomic particles the deeper underlying truth)

2. A golden necklace is only relatively a necklace, what it more truly is, is gold: it can be melted into a golden-ring, a gold-pendant, a golden-calf... "Necklace" is Mythia and gold is its truer nature.

3. A wave in the ocean is not an illusion, it has a definite shape and force, it can cause damage or can be fun surfing, but the deeper truth of it is WATER. The form of a wave can only last that long, but water was there before and will remain after.

[continued...]
Posted by Yuyutsu, Sunday, 10 January 2021 2:18:34 PM
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[...continued]

Similarly, our free will in particular and our mental experiences in general, are not illusions, they are not fake, they are not lies, they are not tricks - but neither are they the final absolute truth.

On a relative level, our free choice gives us certain control over our bodies and through them over our environment. On that level also, our choices produce results: choosing well in obedience to God brings favourable results and ill-choosing against God brings painful results, that pain feeling most real.

All this is not false, but nor the absolute truth - it is Mithya.

The only absolute truth, underlying all our experiences, all our actions and all the results of those actions, is God. At the ultimate, there is nothing but God, there can be nothing else, there can be no will but His. Only God can be called 'True', everlasting, uncreated, the Ultimate Reality.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Sunday, 10 January 2021 2:18:38 PM
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