Wrong thread. That's what such rubbish does to your concentration.

Alon's articles can make us cry - but what else can we do?

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Dear David,

«Israel can either be a Jewish state or a democracy. It cannot be both. That is the reality that must be faced if there is to be peace.»

Israel CAN be both - all it needs is to shrink a bit in area so that everyone in that region can live within a state they are happy with, which suits their lifestyle.

Democracy is a compromise, an attempt at mitigation and keeping the peace when you must live with people of a very different lifestyle. Far better than this is to avoid such situations to begin with, to live separately and independently so nobody needs to control others who are too different - do this and the particular internal system of governance within each independent region will hardly matter any more, whether democratic or otherwise.

«Possibly, all inhabitants in the area could replace religion by reason.»

Yes, and a very good reason to sacrifice that which is most dear to you: it would make old David so happy...

Dear Yuyutsu,

Making old David happy is a worthy deed.

One State and a civil rights struggle for the Palestinians could see gains for both camps. Israel needs a monopoly on the state security apparatus as a matter of survival. But the walls must come down. The expropriation of land must stop. Those whose land has been confiscated must have it returned or be compensated. There must be a statement from Israel that it accepts wrongs were committed with the original 'Nakba'. But full justice for all Palestinian refugees would put Israel in an untenable situation. The best Israel can afford is recognition, compensation and repatriation of a capped number every year. (maybe 15,000) Palestinians must also have fair access to water. In the end there must be full freedom of movement within a 'One State' which is home both the the Israeli and Palestinian nations. This comes with risks of 'lone wolf' Terror attacks ; but promotes reconciliation over the longer term ; hence perhaps is worth it.

Dear Tristan,

Israel does not owe the "Palestinians" anything.
They attacked, several times, ruthlessly, causing many casualties, but they lost and that's it. Had they won, no Israeli would be left alive, not even children.
Whereas those "Palestinians" who accepted Israel's existence and been peaceful, are now full Israeli citizens, comprising 20% of Israel's population. If they miss any rights or are treated unequally then this must undoubtedly be corrected, yet it has nothing to do with Israel's external (and perhaps eternal) enemies.

The reason, and the only valid reason, why Israel must leave all the territories it occupied in 1967, is that holding onto these cursed territories corrupts it from within. This is an internal Israeli matter which has nothing to do with the so-called "Palestinians".

This foolish idea of "One State", even if it would not have ruined Israel's security, would still ruin its culture and no Israeli should accept this. The people of Israel bought their land, settled and built it, in order to live there within their unique culture, language and calendar. We know that there are those, including within this forum, who are eager for such "One State", not because they like/support the "Palestinians", but because they so much hate Israel's culture, especially its religion.

If you believe that some of Israel's territory was not rightly earned, with money and/or with blood and sweat, that these "Palestinians" presumably have valid claims over parts of the land (beyond the lands of those peaceful "Palestinians" who already live there as Israeli citizens; and beyond the territories occupied in 1967), then please bring forward your precise claims so the exact area of the state of Israel can be negotiated, but never its essence and integrity.

I don't 'hate' Israel's culture or religion. I consider myself a left-wing supporter of progressive Zionism - in the tradition of Judah Magnes.

I think it's a concern where right-wing forces are dominating Zionist discourse. It was not always like this and does not have to be like this.