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The Forum > Article Comments > Israel and Palestinians: architects of their own destruction > Comments

Israel and Palestinians: architects of their own destruction : Comments

By Alon Ben-Meir, published 22/5/2020

As Israel celebrates the 72nd anniversary of its independence, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict continues to simmer as neither side seems to have learned anything from their seven decades-old conflict.

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A Buddhist, Christian, Hindu, Jewish or Muslim state cannot be a democracy. Those who do not belong to the religion on which the state is based are second-class citizens. Israel can either be a Jewish state or a democracy. It cannot be both. That is the reality that must be faced if there is to be peace.
Posted by david f, Friday, 22 May 2020 9:42:15 AM
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No matter how it is ground up, the Palestinians want a state based on
Jerusalem with no Jews, from the sea to the river.
Israel's existence is not acceptable.
That is the minimum stipulation.
So how do you negotiate that ?
Posted by Bazz, Friday, 22 May 2020 10:38:39 AM
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architects of their own destruction
What else is new ?
Posted by individual, Friday, 22 May 2020 10:47:43 AM
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Possibly, all inhabitants in the area could replace religion by reason.
Posted by david f, Friday, 22 May 2020 10:52:06 AM
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Yup!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Friday, 22 May 2020 11:49:47 AM
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This is song, is not for pre-school children hyped up on red food colouring, but for all Chinese citizens and promoted by the Chinese state media, aka the Chinese Communist Party:

“China has produced a Big Daddy Xi,
No tiger is too big for him to fight.
He fears neither heaven nor earth,
Dreamers all look to him!
China also has Mama Peng,
Gift her flowers beautiful and fresh.
Protect her, and bless her,
Rise up family, rise up country, rise
up Chinese empire.”

Read that - I don’t recommend trying to sing it - and still tell yourself that we should be dealing with people who put out such crapola.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 22 May 2020 2:01:23 PM
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Wrong thread. That's what such rubbish does to your concentration.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 22 May 2020 2:03:31 PM
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Alon's articles can make us cry - but what else can we do?

---

Dear David,

«Israel can either be a Jewish state or a democracy. It cannot be both. That is the reality that must be faced if there is to be peace.»

Israel CAN be both - all it needs is to shrink a bit in area so that everyone in that region can live within a state they are happy with, which suits their lifestyle.

Democracy is a compromise, an attempt at mitigation and keeping the peace when you must live with people of a very different lifestyle. Far better than this is to avoid such situations to begin with, to live separately and independently so nobody needs to control others who are too different - do this and the particular internal system of governance within each independent region will hardly matter any more, whether democratic or otherwise.

«Possibly, all inhabitants in the area could replace religion by reason.»

Yes, and a very good reason to sacrifice that which is most dear to you: it would make old David so happy...
Posted by Yuyutsu, Saturday, 23 May 2020 11:59:40 PM
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Dear Yuyutsu,

Making old David happy is a worthy deed.
Posted by david f, Sunday, 24 May 2020 12:11:49 AM
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One State and a civil rights struggle for the Palestinians could see gains for both camps. Israel needs a monopoly on the state security apparatus as a matter of survival. But the walls must come down. The expropriation of land must stop. Those whose land has been confiscated must have it returned or be compensated. There must be a statement from Israel that it accepts wrongs were committed with the original 'Nakba'. But full justice for all Palestinian refugees would put Israel in an untenable situation. The best Israel can afford is recognition, compensation and repatriation of a capped number every year. (maybe 15,000) Palestinians must also have fair access to water. In the end there must be full freedom of movement within a 'One State' which is home both the the Israeli and Palestinian nations. This comes with risks of 'lone wolf' Terror attacks ; but promotes reconciliation over the longer term ; hence perhaps is worth it.
Posted by Tristan Ewins, Monday, 1 June 2020 12:03:19 PM
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Dear Tristan,

Israel does not owe the "Palestinians" anything.
They attacked, several times, ruthlessly, causing many casualties, but they lost and that's it. Had they won, no Israeli would be left alive, not even children.
Whereas those "Palestinians" who accepted Israel's existence and been peaceful, are now full Israeli citizens, comprising 20% of Israel's population. If they miss any rights or are treated unequally then this must undoubtedly be corrected, yet it has nothing to do with Israel's external (and perhaps eternal) enemies.

The reason, and the only valid reason, why Israel must leave all the territories it occupied in 1967, is that holding onto these cursed territories corrupts it from within. This is an internal Israeli matter which has nothing to do with the so-called "Palestinians".

This foolish idea of "One State", even if it would not have ruined Israel's security, would still ruin its culture and no Israeli should accept this. The people of Israel bought their land, settled and built it, in order to live there within their unique culture, language and calendar. We know that there are those, including within this forum, who are eager for such "One State", not because they like/support the "Palestinians", but because they so much hate Israel's culture, especially its religion.

If you believe that some of Israel's territory was not rightly earned, with money and/or with blood and sweat, that these "Palestinians" presumably have valid claims over parts of the land (beyond the lands of those peaceful "Palestinians" who already live there as Israeli citizens; and beyond the territories occupied in 1967), then please bring forward your precise claims so the exact area of the state of Israel can be negotiated, but never its essence and integrity.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 1 June 2020 12:55:14 PM
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I don't 'hate' Israel's culture or religion. I consider myself a left-wing supporter of progressive Zionism - in the tradition of Judah Magnes.

I think it's a concern where right-wing forces are dominating Zionist discourse. It was not always like this and does not have to be like this.
Posted by Tristan Ewins, Monday, 1 June 2020 1:04:37 PM
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The only acceptable solution for the Palestinians is for all Jews to
leave Moslem lands. These lands include all land conquered by moslems.
Israel was invaded and conquered in the 8th century by Islam.
The Koran states that land conquered by moslems remains moslem land
even if later they are ejected from that land.
These lands include Greece, Serbia, Hungary Slovenia and part of Austria, Spain and Sicily.
I know you think I am being silly, if so you really do need to research
it all. They have never accepted being ejected from Al-Andalus.
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 1 June 2020 1:25:00 PM
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