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The Forum > Article Comments > Outspoken Christians will not be tolerated > Comments

Outspoken Christians will not be tolerated : Comments

By Bill Muehlenberg, published 12/4/2019

For daring to share some scripture passages on his own social media page, Australian rugby star Israel Folau has been given the boot – all in the name of tolerance and inclusion of course.

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Dear Hasbeen,

Well you are of course welcome to your assessment but I'm probably going to go with Israel's own words;

"As you have probably read, last week I met with Rugby Australia chief executive Raelene Castle and Waratahs general manager Andrew Hore.

During the meeting I told them it was never my intention to hurt anyone with the Instagram comment, but that I could never shy away from who I am, or what I believe.

They explained their position and talked about external pressure from the media, sponsors and different parts of the community, which I understand.

I acknowledge Raelene and Andrew have to run things in a way that appeals broadly to their executive, fans and sponsors, as well as its players and staff. It is a business.

I didn’t agree with Bill Pulver taking a stance on the same sex marriage vote on behalf of the whole organisation, but I understand the reasons behind why he did.

After we’d all talked, I told Raelene if she felt the situation had become untenable – that I was hurting Rugby Australia, its sponsors and the Australian rugby community to such a degree that things couldn’t be worked through – I would walk away from my contract, immediately."

Looks like he pretty well mimics my own appreciation of what this is about.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Sunday, 14 April 2019 9:48:17 PM
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.

Dear LEGO,

.

You wrote :

1. « Freedom of Speech is hardly "important" if you decide that it does not apply to anyone who criticises a particular group of people that you believe should be beyond criticism »

I thoroughly agree, LEGO. I consider that criticism is a necessary prerequisite for belief – whatever the subject – and try to keep my beliefs to a strict minimum. They tend to cloud my vision.

All too often, I have observed in some people that their beliefs have become so encrusted in their minds for such a long time that they are incapable of calling them into question. Their beliefs seem to have fossilised and turned into stone. I certainly should not like that to happen to me.
.

2. « Your next premise, was that restrictions on freedom of speech already exist in law in certain states so then this must be OK »

I made no judgment on the law. I simply pointed-out that it existed and commented : “It will be interesting to see if Israel Folau takes the matter to court. I’m not sure it would be in his best interests to do so”.

If the court decides he broke the law he might end up in jail. I doubt that he would consider that to be in his best interests.
.

3. « Israel Folau has just as much right to criticise homosexuals in an "aggressive" manner as you do to criticise the groups of people that you don't like in whatever "aggressive" manner you wish »

My understanding is that we all have the right to criticise whomever and whatever we like as often as we like. I am more circumspect about any right of aggression. The OED defines aggression as : “feelings of anger or antipathy resulting in hostile or violent behaviour …”.
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4. « Choose sides, Banjo. Either side with the democrats, or side with the reactionary totalitarians »

That’s overly simplistic, LEGO. There’s more to life than just black and white. There are all the colours of the rainbow.

.
Posted by Banjo Paterson, Monday, 15 April 2019 12:40:24 AM
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Dear SteeleRedux,

.

Thank you for posting Izzy’s declaration following his meeting with Rugby Australia chief executive Raelene Castle and Waratahs general manager Andrew Hore. That is an interesting development.

It has the merit of providing an explanation for his action that is perfectly comprehensible, though particularly inept and heavy-handed to say the least. He obviously has a serious bone of contention with the former CEO of the Australian Rugby Union, Bill Pulver whom he disapproves for having taken “a stance on the same sex marriage vote on behalf of the whole organisation”.

His statement contains no apology nor the slightest sign of regret. On the contrary, he declares “I could never shy away from who I am, or what I believe”. This, combined with the revelation of his serious dissension with the former CEO who employed him, precludes, in my opinion, any possibility of reconciliation with the current senior management of the ARU who will not want problems of this nature constantly cropping up in the future.

It remains to be seen if the affair will have any judicial consequences. Judging from the final sentence of Izzy’s declaration, if the judiciary does become involved, it won’t be on his initiative.

He shouldn’t have any difficulty finding another lucrative occupation in Australia, or anywhere else in the world for that matter, given his exceptional sporting talents and worldwide notoriety.

.
Posted by Banjo Paterson, Monday, 15 April 2019 2:11:33 AM
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To Banjo

1. You have stated on this post and on another, that freedom of speech ends where it affects others. The USSR's Politburo agrees with you. Hitler agrees with you. Kim jong Un agrees with you. Mao tse Tung agrees with you. Foxy agrees with you.

Thomas Jefferson would not agree with you. The founding fathers of the US Constitution would not agree with you. Voltaire would not agree with you. Nobody who is a true liberal progressive, as opposed to a virtue signalling, pseudo intellectual reactionary posing as a progressive liberal, would agree with you.

2. The clear implication that you made is that if freedom of speech is against the law, then it must be OK. It is not OK. In Australia, we do not have a constitutional right to freedom of speech, instead it has evolved over time to be considered an absolute right. That right is now under attack from socialist totalitarian reactionaries, and you agree with them.

3. Freedom of speech can be expressed as politely or as impolitely as you like. The only restriction is on "incitement to violence." That means you can't walk down George Street, Sydney holding up a placard saying "Behead those who insult Islam." Of course, a bunch of Muslims in Sydney did just that. But nobody arrested them, nobody took them to court, and nobody fired them from their jobs. Probably because they did not have jobs. The universally accepted restriction on freedom of speech apparently do not apply to Muslims in Sydney preaching violence.

4. You either support freedom of speech or you do not. If you support freedom of speech you are a genuine liberal progressive. If you oppose freedom of speech, or even support new restrictions on freedom of speech which seem to apply to one side of politics but not the other, then you are not a genuine liberal progressive at all. You are siding with every ideological fanatic in history who wants to shut down debate on their favourite ideology because they consider it so perfect that they will not tolerate criticism.
Posted by LEGO, Monday, 15 April 2019 4:06:47 AM
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One thing is certain with creeping censorship.

It won't be long until a section of the population needs to be marched out into the forest and shot.
Historically, what starts as censorship always ends badly.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 15 April 2019 6:51:19 AM
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Banjo,

<<All too often, I have observed in some people that their beliefs have become so encrusted in their minds for such a long time that they are incapable of calling them into question. Their beliefs seem to have fossilised and turned into stone. I certainly should not like that to happen to me.>>

Does that also apply to your own non-Christian or anti-Christian beliefs?

Have they also become fossilised as part of your world and life view?
Posted by OzSpen, Monday, 15 April 2019 7:11:40 AM
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