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The Forum > Article Comments > Outspoken Christians will not be tolerated > Comments

Outspoken Christians will not be tolerated : Comments

By Bill Muehlenberg, published 12/4/2019

For daring to share some scripture passages on his own social media page, Australian rugby star Israel Folau has been given the boot – all in the name of tolerance and inclusion of course.

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Dear The Inspector,

Religion is not just a matter of belief. It is also a matter of identity. Mother Teresa told how she had many years of unbelief. However, during those years she kept performing her functions as a nun and remained part of the Christian community. That goes for other religions, also. Religion is a form of tribalism. Mother Teresa had years of unbelief but never stopped being a Christian nun.

I was raised as a Jew and had a Jewish education. I am conversant with Jewish history and customs but no longer believe in any supernatural beings. However, I remain a member of the tribe, and Banjo Paterson remains a member of his tribe.

I find myself in sympathy with Banjo Paterson. Our view of the world is much the same. He shows remarkably good sense which is another way of saying I have much the same viewpoint. If we lived near each other we might become good friends.

There are formal definitions of Christians, Jews and people of other religions. Both Christians and Jews have rites of excommunication which exclude people from the tribe. Spinoza was excommunicated, but he is still thought of a Jew. He is still a member of the tribe. The formal definition of a Jew is one who adheres to the statement of belief, "Hear, O, Israel, the Lord, our God, the Lord is One." I can no longer believe in any supernatural being, but I remain a Jew.

There are formal definitions, and there is reality
Posted by david f, Tuesday, 16 April 2019 8:41:35 AM
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Steele,

"This was judicial activism and it blocked attempts by Washington DC to prevent the horrendous cost of handguns in their city"

OK, so it was expensive to buy handguns in Washington, DC, but it still had a horrendous murder rate and other crimes.

You stick with the dissenting judge, I'll stick with the majority.

Why don't you analyse the sentence and apply your English lessons to it?
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 16 April 2019 10:28:02 AM
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.

Dear The Inspector,

.

You wrote :

« If you have jettisoned a belief in the existence of the Christian God, then you have ceased to adhere to the definition of a Christian »
I have not “jettisoned a belief in the existence of the Christian God”.
.

I never had a belief in the Christian god, or any other god for that matter – despite having been baptised and confirmed in the Christian religion. In fact, I should not be surprised if I am not the only one in that situation.

I spent the best part of my life trying to find a good reason to believe in the Christian god with the expectation that I would eventually find one – but never did. I suspect that most people don’t even try.

Baptism, by the way, existed long before Christianity came into existence. Jesus of Nazareth was baptised by John the Baptist and Jesus was not a Christian. He was a Jew.

Christians apparently decided to do their own spiritual branding in order to be able to distinguish their flock from the flock of the Jews. The Christian brand is done in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost which, of course, is not the same as the Jews’.

I think david f has summed-up he situation quite well. Very few people adhere to religion out of belief. Almost everybody inherits it from their parents. That’s why Islam is due to become the world’s N° 1 religion by 2050. And I suspect that many of those who take their religion seriously, do so out of hope rather than belief. The true believers are few and far between - though they may not admit it.

In today’s world, the cultural aspect of religion is far more important than its spiritual or mystic aspect. Belief is on the wane and has been ever since the Enlightenment.

.
Posted by Banjo Paterson, Tuesday, 16 April 2019 7:39:28 PM
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Dear The Inspector,

Seneca, the Roman philosopher, described religion as a social tool of control by the authorities and not as a belief of the wise.

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Posted by david f, Tuesday, 16 April 2019 10:14:18 PM
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Banjo,

<<I spent half a century investigating the god hypothesis, expecting that I would eventually believe there is a god – until a few years ago when I experienced what I can only describe as a revelation, a stroke of genius, a flash of light that hit me like a bolt of lightning and penetrated my mind. It suddenly dawned on me that there is no god,>>

So your internal 'revelation' of 'no god' is the arbiter of the 'god hypothesis'? Sounds awfully subjective and mystical to me.

I know your atheism did not come from the Judeo-Christian world and life view and THE God. Who is the Lord God Almighty?

The first of the 10 Commandments provides evidence of who is the true God: 'So Moses went down to the people and told them. And God spoke all these words, saying, “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery"' (Exodus 19:20-20:1).

Who am I to believe? (1) Banjo who had a 'revelation, a stroke of genius' of 'no god' or (2) The LORD who brought the Israelites out of bondage / slavery in Egypt? The LORD provided evidence of His reality. He is the One who executed judgment on Pharaoh's Egypt (10 plagues) and liberated the Israelites. He is the true God and not the 'no god' of Banjo.
Posted by OzSpen, Wednesday, 17 April 2019 7:24:55 AM
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david f,

The Inspector wrote: "If you have jettisoned a belief in the existence of the Christian God, then you have ceased to adhere to the definition of a Christian".

In your response Posted by david f, Tuesday, 16 April 2019 8:41:35 AM, you didn't address this content. Instead, you wrote:

<<Mother Teresa told how she had many years of unbelief. However, during those years she kept performing her functions as a nun and remained part of the Christian community.>>

You spun off to what you wanted to discuss: Mother Teresa, unbelief and tribalism.

Now, why don't you address the issue: How is it possible to call oneself Christian when belief in the existence of God has been jettisoned? Going into tribalism and Banjo's world view do not address the conflict between 'no god' (of Banjo) and 'I am Christian'.
Posted by OzSpen, Wednesday, 17 April 2019 7:40:36 AM
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