'Believe me I'm trying to understand but the everday evidence is too overwhelming.'

yes Individual the evidence is overwhelming that the more secular we have become in the West the greater the decay. Feminist/Marxist/Secularist have managed to create a putried mess in a short period of time.

You say the evidence is overwhelming. What evidence? That people are corrupt? That Jesus Christ was sinless? Science backs a Creator, a Designer, a Lawgiver.

Biblical Christianity has always given people the choice as to whether they believe or not. Yep certainly if you live by sight you will become cynical. I mean what could be more wicked than murder the baby in your womb and yet people go on to live long lives after doing so. The same culprits then criticise paedophile priests. Both acts are wicked as can be. Secular society encourages such putried actions. Admittingly that is where faith comes in. We will all receive mercy or judgement at the end of our lives. Mercy for those who have repented and received the Saviour (the only Righteous One) or judgement for those self righteous enough to think they can stand before God in their own righteousness. Most people don't have a belief problem they have a sin problem.

If it is all worked out in a book, isn't that what Isis tried to do? Same with the Taliban, certainly a blueprint for socialism, even applicable to Jim Jones and the Branch Davidians perhaps.

Hasn't civilisation developed by refining systems of control over many centuries with input from many people? I would suggest attempts to throw it away and base a new model on a religious text or Marxist theory are likely to fail with good reason.

Interesting, thanks

To Individual.

On January 20th you said:

<<Can't people believe in a power/force such as God without bringing religion into it?>>

My issue is that if a religion (or at least the teachings) is from God, and it helps people find God, then why should that be avoided when searching for God.

When I was growing up, I was raised with my dad being from one religion, and my mom being from another. You can't really say I found God without religion, because I had two religions I grew up around. However I can say that I found God was real before I looked into which religion was from God. It might be possible to believe in God while removing one's self from religion or orginized religion. But there are two concerns from that approach.

1) If God is real, wants to be close to us, answers prayers, and shows He loves us; then it's really hard for me to believe that He would have those attributes without also actively communicating with people as well, and having His teachings, lessons, or the history of Him in our lives be recorded for others to find and be more able to find Him through those teachings. This was my approach when I was a teen before I accepted one religion or another. He responded to my prayers in a time of depression that made me know without any doubt that He is real. So if He did that then there's a good chance that at least one of the religions is from God too, and I could search them out to know how to follow God, and to know Him more.

(Continued)

(Continued)

2). If a person looks for God, without God's say in the matter, (acknowledging what God's already said in the past from religious texts that you trust are also from Him), then one issue is if they really found God or not. It might be possible, maybe that's how God has reached some people, to start their journey to search for God. However I've seen many false beliefs about God, then I think "if only they knew a foundation to go from so their imaginations wouldn't lead them astray."

The two examples I have of false beliefs are that:

a) God is a force, but doesn't care about us, isn't involved in our lives, the world anymore.

b) That God is within us; unfortunately from there leads to worshiping ourselves as God or deludes them to thinking that everything they think and do is from God and/or an act of God. (Knowing our own errors and sins at least humbles us enough to realize that if God exists, then He isn't us).

With these in mind, my opinion of finding God should contain the acknowledgement that God exists so that the person can look for Him. But also to discern what is from God and what isn't. Even to say which religions are from Him and which aren't. Prayer helps, and asking for God's help in finding Him.

<<I tend to think that this God is not what all religions tell us.>>

I would say first try to find God, and then once you do you can compare your notes to any religion. Here's my advise though. Don't get lost in the philosophies or the theologies to compare to. They can help, but start by reading the text from the prophets and inspired writings like the bible is for Christians. The other thing. Before you read, pray for God to help you read it and understand it. You'll get a better understanding of the texts that are from God, and hopefully come to terms easier to reject the texts (and religions that stem from them) that aren't from God.

To Fester. You said:

<<Hasn't civilisation developed by refining systems of control over many centuries with input from many people? I would suggest attempts to throw it away and base a new model on a religious text or Marxist theory are likely to fail with good reason.>>

You have a lot of trust in the system we have in place now it sounds like. To be fair our current western systems of governing have learned some hard lessons from kings and being oppressed at their whims. Then countries tried different approaches with a democracy and republic mix, in order to keep too much power out of one person's hands.

However I would say that any core teaching from the bible is trustworthy to implement into our lives. That includes into policy and government. However there is a lesson. Israel was handed down a blueprint for governing their nation, and even with that they turned away from God and grew more sinful. After a growing set of warnings from prophets, and more disasters on them, finally God let them fall completely, let them be conquered, and taken as prisoners. The lesson is that even with the best approach to governing, if we turn away from God, the government will fall, and be fuller of the corruption and sins that we are trying to protect ourselves from.

The trick is being able to find ways of applying the principles in the bible. Especially the ones Jesus taught. It's not about replacing the current system, just to not let it fall apart because we've taken God out of any sector of it.