ALTRAV,

Thanks for your kind words.

I can't take the credit.

I've got farmers in our family who bring me back down to
earth on many occasions. Living in cities - many of us
don't have a clue as to what's going on in the regional
and outlying areas. And the problems people there are
facing.

Does anyone really believe that if Australia stopped its live exports that those nations won't source their animals from somewhere else?

runner,

Of course they will. As Australian Livestock Exports
Council Chairman Simon Crean said in a recent speech -

" A demand for live animals exists for a number of reasons,
including feedlots, breeding programs, and a desire to
build local industry capacity. There's also the inadequacy
of local supply chain infrastructure to handle chilled and
frozen meat products, usually in line with where a country
is in terms of economic development. And of course in many
markets, there is a preference for live animals according to
tradition or local cultures..."

We're told that "In the 1970s there was a strong demand for
food in the Middle East. Due to this, Australian sheep
producers sent animals to different countries that were
willing to pay big dollars for high quality, disease free
stock. Later on, there was a demand from SE Asia that
allowed Australia's live cattle industry to boom."

//Criticisms have also been made about the treatment of our
live stock by other nations. And the ethics involved.
We're told that it is difficult for the Australian Government
to regulate animal welfare due to their inability to
enforce laws beyond our nation.//

I'm no legal expert, but from what I know this one is tricky. Whilst they're on our soil, and presumably extending out into our territorial waters, Australian law applies. But once you hit the high seas, you're in international waters. And then of course once the livestock reach their destination, they're subject to the laws of wherever they land.

I'd be interested to know which countries live export ships are registered in, because I know that affects the laws they're bound to. I have my suspicions it's not Australia. I think if they're our sheep, they should be our ships. That gives us the greatest degree of control of the welfare of our sheep possible.

So that they don't end up crammed in like sardines, covered from head to rump in the faeces of their own species. I've never studied veterinary science, but I don't think that could possibly be good for them.

If they can't be treated humanely at sea; they should be slaughtered on our soil in line with our standards. I don't buy the argument that we won't be able to find a market: the middle classes in China & India are growing at an enormous rate, and they'll take all the lamb & mutton we can send them.

Also, wool is the best fibre ever. Seems a mistake to be breeding them for meat when goats are a thing and sheep can be bred for wool.

And finally, I don't have a single f&^ck to give when it comes to respecting cultural practices that demand gratuitous animal cruelty. Bugger 'em, they can eat more falafel or whatever.

Toni, in the interest of truth.
The pics and videos being bandied around about sheep standing neck deep in 'their own faeces' is not what it seems.
In all my years involved in farming, (I'm NOT a farmer) the only time I have seen sheep walking/standing neck deep in ANY liquid, is either during a flood or going through a sheep dip, which is in the interests of the sheep as it is a trough like structure filled with chemicals to kill parasites like lice and such.
As for the lie about the pics are taken inside a 'sheep ship', again, a lie.
A sheep ship is open sided so any water splashing in on high seas will immediately run back out, over the sides.
Also, because they are open sided debunks any suggestion the sheep are locked inside these 'hot boxes', they're not.
To clarify further.
There are many reasons why the Middle East requires the sheep be sent alive.
One reason is most people do not have access to freezers, and so keep the sheep alive till they need it.
Then the commercial consideration.
The sheep are cheaper alive even if they had the means to keep the meat frozen.
Toni, no-one is treating the sheep badly here or on the ships.
When they reach their destination; well that's out of our hands.
I do not believe we should force a culture to do things our way in their country.
It's no different than demanding Muslims follow our beliefs in their country.
We have not mastered the art of getting them to follow our beliefs in our country, what chance is there beyond our borders.
Toni, there is no actual cruelty on a scale portrayed by the idiots.
Any harsh treatment of animals is an ongoing matter.
No one will ever stop it.
I will argue quite strongly against the cessation of any livestock exports.
If there was a choice between a farmer and his family suffering, or worse, or some sheep dying in the course of their day, I'd rather some sheep suffer/die, than one human being.

//In all my years involved in farming, (I'm NOT a farmer) the only time I have seen sheep walking/standing neck deep in ANY liquid, is either during a flood or going through a sheep dip, which is in the interests of the sheep as it is a trough like structure filled with chemicals to kill parasites like lice and such.//

Yeah, the ones totally covered in sh!t weren't 'walking/standing' - because they no longer had the strength to stand up, or because they were dead. Now who's telling porkies, ALTRAV?

//As for the lie about the pics are taken inside a 'sheep ship', again, a lie.//

O.... kay. Seems to be a remarkable number of sheep on that ship if it's not a live export ship. Let me guess, ALTRAVing lunatic... it was a actually a romantic pleasure cruise for Kiwis and their partners, and it just got overbooked.

Jesus christ, it's like having Baghdad Bob explain the live export trade.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC5UTUAxgpE

Actually, now that I come to think about it... does anybody know what happened to Baghdad Bob after the war? Because I think we may have found the answer. How are you finding life in Australia, Mr. Al-Sahhaf?

//One reason is most people do not have access to freezers, and so keep the sheep alive till they need it.//

Yeah... or they could, you know, just not eat sheep. It's actually not that hard; I haven't had lamb since last week sometime, and I haven't broken out in a rash or anything.

//The sheep are cheaper alive even if they had the means to keep the meat frozen.//

So, less profit for us than if we sold the meat to burgeoning Asian middle classes. You're really not doing a very good job of selling this, are you?

If the Middle Easterners are too cheap too buy our meat... stuff 'em, sell it to people that aren't such tightwads. As I've pointed out, there are frigging stacks of them in China.