Not_Now.Soon,

You’re still getting hung up on this idea that I have suggested that Armageddon is the main or only reason for Christian support of Israel.

<<…it is not nearly the only reason or even close to being the only reason.>>

I posted the following clarification even before my further clarification yesterday:

“I didn’t mean to suggest that Armageddon is necessarily the main or only reason driving Christian support for Israel. The fact that it factors in at all for (in my experience) most Christians is bad enough.” (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=19754#349747)

<<…those that support Israel, support it because they are God's chosen people, or something along those lines.>>

Sure, but bringing on the end times is still a factor to some degree or another. That was my only point there. The fact that there are other reasons as to why Christians support Israel is immaterial.

<<It sounds like your stance is softening away from "Christians are waiting for Jesus to return distroy all the Jews,"...>>

My position hasn’t softened. I just didn’t scrutinise rache’s every word as thoroughly as you did. I still stand by this, however:

“…and although most would never voice such an opinion, the logical conclusion is that Jews are all going to hell anyway because they reject Christ (John 14:6).”

Hitler will have nothing on Jesus once He has condemned those who do not accept Him, or died before they got the chance to.

That may not sound pleasant, but, technically, and according to Protestant theology, this is the case. Jesus will be sending the Jews (along with every other non-believer) to a place that will make Auschwitz look like summer camp.

But at least in Auschwitz you could die.

That doesn't mean that evangelicals want this, of course. But it is still a consequence of what they're eagerly awaiting.

<<If your point still is that armogodden is the reason that Christians support Israel, then I will disagree once again.>>

It's at least one of the reasons. You’ve effectively acknowledged this.

To AJ. My replies on this topic are not just meant for you. But the idea for why Christians support Israel is probabley something worth noting coming from an actual Christian. And to the respect of false accusations, before they become a new line to throw at Christians, or a new misconception spread to non Christians about Christianity, I thought it was worth nipping it in the bud so to speak and correct this new idea of Christians.

You can defend what Rache has said, but in order to do so you need to weaken the argument to be something else completely. Instead of making Christians some anti Semitic hate group (that for convoluted reasons support the people they hate), you know better then justify that kind of lie. And since it is a lie it was worth pointing it out.

As for me, I really do expect Jesus to save Israel. I expect them to call on God or call on Jesus when they are at the brink of dispair. And then that's when Jesus will save them. I have no reason to think they will be unsaved and unbelieving at that point. So there's no reason to think any Christian is wishing Jewish people to hell because they aren't Christian yet.

You don't need to misrepresent Christianity to further your views against it. For crying out loud you say you were one once so you should be all the more aware when what you say isn't true.

Not_Now.Soon,

I’ve never been interested in defending what rache had said beyond what I initially interpreted her to be saying. She can do that if she feels it necessary. I suspect she was just a little sloppy with her wording, but that’s for her to clarify.

<<You can defend what Rache has said, but in order to do so you need to weaken the argument to be something else completely.>>

My position has remained consistent: firstly, that the establishing of the state of Israel, and her continuance, is a reason that evangelicals support her; and, secondly, that there is an irony to this given that the Jews will be sent to Hell anyway for not accepting Christ (at least those who don’t repent on Judgement Day and those who died before they could).

<<Instead of making Christians some anti Semitic hate group…>>

I’m haven’t done that.

It’s worth pointing out, however, that some Christians are still anti-Semitic (Mel Gibson is a famous example). Are you aware that antisemitism was rife throughout Christianity before WWII?

<<…I really do expect Jesus to save Israel. I expect them to call on God or call on Jesus when they are at the brink of dispair.>>

Considering they didn’t even do that during the Holocaust, I seriously doubt it. Even if they did, that’s still of no use to the unfortunate Jews who will have died before Judgement Day.

<<So there's no reason to think any Christian is wishing Jewish people to hell because they aren't Christian yet.>>

I think it’s safe to say that at least some of the anti-Semitic ones are.

<<You don't need to misrepresent Christianity to further your views against it.>>

I have not yet misrepresented Christianity.

<<For crying out loud you say you were one once so you should be all the more aware when what you say isn't true.>>

What is it that I have I said that isn’t true? Despite my numerous clarifications, it appears you are still confusing me with rache.

A liar, corrupt, materialistic, condescends to women...Trump is a perfect match for the religious.

To AJ Philips.

[I’ve never been interested in defending what rache had said beyond what I initially interpreted her to be saying.]

But you have been and are defending what was said. I've returned again and again to what I am addressing and even told you that on this topic I'm not just talking to you. If you're not going to defend it then stop defending it. It isn't about you. Again in order to defend the topic brought up (by Rache) you need to weaken and change the topic itself to suit a stronger position.

[My position has remained consistent: firstly, that the establishing of the state of Israel, and her continuance, is a reason that evangelicals support her; and, secondly, that there is an irony to this given that the Jews will be sent to Hell anyway for not accepting Christ.]

That's your position now anyways. It has not remained consistent. If you'd like examples to prove this point I can do that. Please don't ask for it because this topic isn't about you and your arguments. Nor do I think you'd react well to having your nose rubbed into it by your own words and changes of position. (At best you can say it was your unwritten but consistent stance. But your written stance has changed multiple times.)

(Continued)

(Continued)

AJ you said:

[I haven’t done that.] (making Christians anti Semitic group).

The original point I'm addressing did, and yes originally you defended that sentiment.

[It’s worth pointing out, however, that some Christians are still anti-Semitic (Mel Gibson is a famous example). Are you aware that antisemitism was rife throughout Christianity before WWII?]

Would you also go so far to say these Christians support Israel? That's the underlying topic of this discussion. Conservative Christian support for Israel and Trump leveraging that support for his purposes. I would be very surprised if any any I Semitic group or individual would support Israel as it's own nation.

[I have not yet misrepresented Christianity. What is it that I have I said that isn’t true? Despite my numerous clarifications, it appears you are still confusing me with rache.]

You have though. Before writing this response I was writing out a response going over your responses in this conversation. But again I don't think it's worth it for you to push this point. It would take at least one full day's worth of 4 comments of my own to detail the conversation so far and how you've both not remained consistent as well as misrepresented Christianity. Possibly multiple day's worth of outlining conversation as quoted directly. I'm willing to do this but am asking you not to ask for it. It is a justified criticism that you should be able to see from your own responses.