To TL.

The first video spoke of Christian support of Israel to be summed up by a tour of Israel by a pastor. As part of the tour the pastor definitely placed his interpretation and understanding of the end times. However, also in the video is that the American Christian voting block is the largest voting block with pro support towards Israel. It might be worth mentioning that there's a few different theories concerning the end times, as well as (also in the video) that Christians just believe Israel has the right to exist. It is not the main motivation for Christian support that Armageddon will occur there. Look at my first 2 posts on this topic to see other motivations for Christian support of Israel.

Both videos mention briefly (first video) or extensively (second video) about the two state peace plan, but over and over throughout the years we've seen this peace plan be tried and tried again, and retried with possibly different wording and political pushes for support. The reality is that this peace plan just isn't working. I use to think of the Palestinians as victims of this process until I saw them on the news again with repeated terrorist activities. Now I see that Palestinian leadership in invested not in peace but in wiping out Israel. If people want to look at the prophesied war scenarios said of the bible for Armageddon, you don't have to go far to see it. It's already building in aggression within Israel by the PLO, and outside of Israel by aggressive neighboring nations that have already tried to wipe Israel off the map in the 6 day war in Israel.

(Continued)

Throughout history though Jewish communities around the world have suffered oppression. Why would we not support for them to have a home of their own? In today's current events there have been masses of refugees fleeing Islamic civil wars, that have been welcomed in other countries. Especially from Syria's civil war right now. Why couldn't there be the same response to Palestinians who refuse to be integrated into the state of Israel? Instead, the world watches on in full support of an ongoing civil war skirmishes between Israel and Palestine. No two state peace is working. It's time to start supporting Israel instead of terrorists leading Palestine.

There you have it at least one more motivation to support Israel without it being about Armageddon.

To AJ Philips and Rache.

Armageddon is an event backed by prophesy in the scriptures of the bible. However, there's a huge difference between acknowledging that event to happen in the future (as well as agreeing on the details of that event), verses supporting Israel with the main motivation being that they are trying to bring Israel's demise through prophetic events. AJ Philips, you mentioned Christians trying to look at the silver lining of that event, right? That sound more like trying to come to terms with the event, then to me the main motivation for supporting Israel. However that said you talked to those Christians not me. If the context that you suggest is correct then all I can say is that it's possible that the Christians you've dealt with are very different from the ones I've encountered.

I'd like to think I've been fairly exposed to Christianity in the US, and know several of the points and counter points of many issues within Christian communities. And since this conversation started with regards to conservative Christians I might be in a somewhat knowledgeable position to speak from. Sorry to take away from both of your guys expertise with Christians, but honestly it seems ironic to me that 2 non Christians are trying to educate a Christian on why Christians support Israel. Honestly, just consider what I've said. For a moment don't focus on that I'm correcting you both on Christian motivation. But just look at what I said and consider it. Do you really think the main motivation for supporting Israel is that it fits with a time table for Armageddon? I have serious doubts on that conclusion and think that other motivations I mentioned are the main elements why Christians support Israel. (Or at least Christian from my neck of the woods, outside of Australia.).

Indeed there is, Not_Now.Soon.

<<…there's a huge difference between acknowledging that event to happen in the future … verses supporting Israel with the main motivation being that they are trying to bring Israel's demise through prophetic events.>>

For many Christians, however, the two are inextricably linked.

<<…you mentioned Christians trying to look at the silver lining of that event, right?>>

Not “trying to look”, I just said they’d see it.

<<That sound more like trying to come to terms with the event, then to me the main motivation for supporting Israel.>>

Well, that was my terminology, and if that’s what you draw from it, then perhaps it wasn’t the most ideal. I more meant that a part of them would be excited by it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2Dzt_Tp5VE&feature=youtu.be&t=265

I rarely ever speak of the dangers of Christianity without mentioning the insidiousness of its dangers (as opposed to Islam, where the dangers are much more immediate and obvious), but this is one area in which doing so is not necessary. Hoping for Armageddon one of the areas in which the danger of Christianity is obvious.

<<However that said you talked to those Christians not me.>>

Yes, I don't think I implied that you must therefore necessarily believe the same. I’m aware that there are differing levels of the belief in, and wishing for, Armageddon.

<<…the Christians you've dealt with are very different from the ones I've encountered.>>

If, for the Christians you’ve encountered, the end times do not factor into their support for Israel one iota, then, yes, they’re very different. However, I doubt this is the case for most of them. I didn’t mean to suggest that Armageddon is necessarily the main or only reason driving Christian support for Israel. The fact that it factors in at all for (in my experience) most Christians is bad enough.

<<…it seems ironic to me that 2 non Christians are trying to educate a Christian on why Christians support Israel.>>

Just because someone is no longer a Christian, that doesn’t mean they forget everything they learned and experienced as a Christian.

To AJ Philips.

For many Christians (myself included), the understanding of Armageddon isn't about Israel's demise. It is part of a tragic event or sets of events that the world goes through. Israel in that context is part of the prophesy because in order for Israel to be attacked as described in Revelations (where God will save them), in order for that to happen, Israel first needs to be it's own nation. With this in mind Israel is now a nation. There seems to be a few other parts in that prophesy, but personally I had to look up scripture supporting Israel being slaughtered as Rache described.

The looking forwards to these events is not so much about the tragic events themselves, but about afterwards. Where Jesus will be back, the world renewed, and sin and suffering removed from Earth. Paradise on earth with no more death.

[Yes, I don't think I implied that you must therefore necessarily believe the same.]

You might not have meant to imply this, but you agreed with Rache on his argument, saying

"I’ve known and encountered more Christians than I could ever possibly count (both as a theist and as an atheist) and, in my experience, what rache has said is correct."

What Rache said:

"As for the evangelical support of Israel, their real motive is that the returned Jesus will destroy the Jews for them anyway but are happy to use them to bring on their wished-for apocalypse."

AJ Philips, do you really believe this to be the case? If so then it reads as if yes you think I would believe the same. It's the real reason after all. I don't know of any Christians that hate Jews, so this is plainly not the case.

(Continued)

Perhaps not, Not_Now.Soon.

<<For many Christians (myself included), the understanding of Armageddon isn't about Israel's demise.>>

But, as even you go on to say, one part of it does entail the establishing of a Jewish state, and its continuance (hence the evangelical support for Israel). That’s all I was getting at.

<<The looking forwards to these events is not so much about the tragic events themselves, but about afterwards.>>

Yes, but at some point there is no difference. Armageddon still has to happen first.

<<You might not have meant to imply this, but you agreed with Rache…>>

Okay, so I wouldn’t necessarily say EVERY evangelical (although, from memory, and in my experience, it has been), and I wouldn’t say, “…destroy the Jews for [Christians]…”.

While the Jews will be sent to Hell for rejecting Jesus (at least those who are no longer alive on Judgement Day), I've never believed that Jesus sending them there on the behalf of Christians was a part of the theology, and nor do I think that most Christians want this either. On the contrary, the love Christians have for the Jewish (at least after the horrors of WWII were revealed and a change of heart occurred, anyway) borders on downright creepy. It’s quite comical, too, given how unwanted the love is.

I hope that clears things up there. I look forward to your continuation prevented by the posting limits.