//The end is not yet set in concrete but all the ingredients are in place.//

Ah well, mhaze. What can I say but 'cheer up, sadsack, it might never happen'?

Frankly I'd have preferred riskier, more concrete predictions and less of the vague waffly sort made by astrologers and their ilk.

Risky predictions of doom, gloom, and the End Times are more fun because it's clear and obvious when they fail to eventuate... as they always do. When that clock ticks over to 01/01/2000, planes will rain from the sky and we will enter a new dark age. When the Mayan long count calendar marks the beginning of a new cycle, that's it, game over folks. That sort of thing... a good healthy form of amusement that I'm sure both left and right can enjoy together.

Vague and waffly predictions aren't as much fun. When some miserable pessimist claims that the rate at which CO2 concentrations are rising might be a problem, or not, but shouldn't we be cautious just in case? What can you do but point out his pessimism? He hasn't stuck his neck out like some port-blockading feral to claim that burning coal will lead to complete extinction of the three-fingered tree bilby by next Tuesday, just expressed some concern that bad things might happen.

Same deal with pessimists claiming that the rate at which Aussies ticking the 'no religion' or 'other (in this case, other than Christianity)' box are rising might be a problem, or not, but shouldn't we be cautious just in case? Again, they haven't stuck their neck out like some like some bible-bashing evangelist to claim that abandoning Jeebus will lead to the world being overturned and perishing in fire and water - just vaguely hinted that bad things might happen.

Not much you can do in those cases, I reckon. I figure everybody's pessimistic about something, and that it's normal and healthy.

When I'm feeling down, I often find something that cheers me up is a nice cheery Sousa march, followed by a good old-fashioned sing-along.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOCxegQupMU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrdEMERq8MA

//about the two state peace plan... over and over throughout the years we've seen this peace plan be tried and tried again, and retried with possibly different wording and political pushes for support. The reality is that this peace plan just isn't working...//

Dammnit, I swore to myself that I wasn't going to be drawn in by the politics, because it's not my business, but I just can't let that one go.

I'm of Irish stock. I grew up in Australia, of course, far removed from the 'Troubles'. But I've studied them, because history matters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLY0HNds_tE

People said that peace plan would never work. And bear in mind that the IRA weren't none of your little Palestinian pussies, shooting pebbles from their slingshots whilst Our Brave Israeli Heroes snipe at them. The Irish know how to raise hell, whether it be in name of terrorism or just the craic. It's not hard to find information about the Troubles online, so I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader.

And then they realised there was a better way, and sat down and talked through their differences.

And I think that's quite enough politics for now, don't you?

//Throughout history though Jewish communities around the world have suffered oppression.//

Yes, much of it at the hands of Christians.

And some it at the hands of Americans:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb3IMTJjzfo

Maybe they do things differently in Arizona ;)

//Why would we not support for them to have a home of their own? In today's current events there have been masses of refugees fleeing Islamic civil wars, that have been welcomed in other countries. Especially from Syria's civil war right now. Why couldn't there be the same response to Palestinians who refuse to be integrated into the state of Israel?//

Jesus, seriously... are you that ignorant of history?

OK, time for a quick recap:

The hard-working, long-suffering Jews fall victim to the worst pogrom they've ever faced: the Shoah. Appalling. Disgusting.

NEVER. EVER. AGAIN.

Squeezed out of Europe by the horrors of the Shoah, nowhere to go, the League of Nations decide that after all that suffering the poor bastards need somewhere nice to go.

Australia being the obvious choice: nice weather, nice beaches, plenty of room... we could have absorbed most of those Jewish refugees, and I reckon it would have been to our benefit.

Australia always gets overlooked :(

Anyway, the point is that the Jews were made refugees by the Nazis, and you seem to be in favour of the Palestinians being made refugees by the Israelis, and I can't help but wonder whom the Palestinians are meant to displace? I mean, I hate to use the term 'domino effect'... but where is this madness supposed to end?

//Instead, the world watches on in full support of an ongoing civil war skirmishes between Israel and Palestine.//

In full support of further unnecessary bloodshed? Speak for yourself, Joffrey. Many houses do not stand with you, and House Ravenclaw always remember.

You're a spherical bastard, NNS: no matter which angle one views you from, you're still a bastard.

//However, there's a huge difference between acknowledging that event to happen in the future (as well as agreeing on the details of that event)//

Hold on, that sounds like you're suggesting that there are different ways to interpret the prophecies laid down in the Scriptures... I thought that you believed that the Scriptures could only ever be interpreted in one literal, direct manner.

Well, now I am flummoxed.

"This is how the West dies: with a tut-tut, not with a bang. "

http://www.dailywire.com/news/31243/suicide-europe-ben-shapiro

It might seem all very well Toni, to discover a few old 'predictions' that failed to materialise and then assert that all 'predictions' are similarly fated, but that doesn't cut it. I could easily find similar 'predictions' that were spectacularly accurate eg Churchill on Hitler, Hayek on communism. But all that does is give some signposts as to where we are headed. It doesn't tell us the destination.

That the west will decline into irrelevance is more of a when than an if issue. But defending and strengthening the foundations of western civilisation against its external enemies and internal unthinking foes will extend the 'when' into the distance, and that's about all we can try to do for now. It will be up to our descendants to see how far into the future that extension can go just as it was up to the descendants of the west's founders to build on and consolidate their legacy. If fear we are failing in that mission because we've forgotten what that legacy is.

(Continued from before). (Sorry about that dely).

In my experience both my own understanding and my experience with other Christians is that Jesus will come back to ....(not in any order)

1) save Israel, 2) possibly a rapture at some point, 3) or instead of a rapture call people up to Him which would be like a welcome party for when He returns, 4) judge the church throughout the nations/ judge the world as a whole, or judge the world after claiming the Christians that are His followers, and His own. 5) fight the armies collected against God, 6) remove sin and death, and bring in a new world and a new great city to be the new Jerusalem.

The closest accurate point to what you guys are trying to present is that supporting Israel is an excitement that God will finally fix this broken world. But it is not nearly the only reason or even close to being the only reason. Largely from what I've seen, those that support Israel, support it because they are God's chosen people, or something along those lines. Support Israel because God supports them kind of thing.

Honestly on the points of Christian support for Israel, your just wrong. There's no other way around it.

That was written before your reply AJ Philips. It sounds like your stance is softening away from "Christians are waiting for Jesus to return distroy all the Jews," which is largely what I was replying to. If your point still is that armogodden is the reason that Christians support Israel, then I will disagree once again. Except all my reasons are already laid out and still just as valid as before. I see no reason to repete them for the show of this circus.

TL, you realize that you identified yourself and Isrishmen with roundly Palestinians. The issue I have is that the palestinians are ok with sucide bombers. The PLO even pays the families of these kinds of terrorists. If you identify with that kind of terrorist then you lose all kinds of credibility. Sorry that's worthy of kicking out of a country and calling them refugees. If you need to take a side because the 2 state peace isn't working, don't side with the terrorists. It's that simple really.