The Forum > Article Comments > Philosophical arguments about religion at Christmas > Comments
Philosophical arguments about religion at Christmas : Comments
By Tristan Ewins, published 22/12/2017In the light of the Royal Commission into Child Sexual Abuse some people are claiming a general redundancy of Christianity, or even religion in general.
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Posted by ALTRAV, Saturday, 6 January 2018 4:28:59 AM
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To Banjo and ALTRAV.
Coming back to the death penalty if I may..... It seems you are saying that IF an innocent person is executed then that is a terrible but unavoidable consequence of having Capital Punishment. And we know that innocent people have indeed been executed wrongly, in the past. So, what is the reason or reasons for having Capital Punishment? It cannot be to act as a deterrent to others who might commit similar crimes - where the death penalty exists those crimes are still happening and in places where there is no Capital Punishment there should see a higher rate of the crimes....but do we? Is it an "eye for an eye" matter? Is it revenge of some kind? Can you try this for me: Imagine YOU are facing the death penalty, for some terrible crime and you know you are innocent? Do ANY reasons for Capital Punishment justify your own execution? Posted by Ashbo, Saturday, 6 January 2018 5:59:41 PM
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Ashbo, I am excited by your question, why? Because it brings forth the very worst in society.
We have a police force that is absolutely abominable. It is useless. It is beholding and cowers to the govt. It is a tax collector. Heaven help anyone 'involved', (not even at fault) in a 'law breaking' activity. The first thing they do is badger you with over the top statements like 'this is very serious' and try desperately to force you to admit guilt. And try hard they do. Then you are charged using evidence that is not totally proven because they will argue their case in court and that's where they expect to win. So they believe. The judiciary is also lacking in communication skills and also inept with the whole system, they are inconsistent with their sentencing. If it is a trial by jury, then the jury is flawed also because they are just people who can be swayed one way or another by a very pushy juror. Oh BTW according to the constitution ALL trials were supposed to be 'judged' by a jury. The 'judge' is merely there to see that proceedings are according to law. A 'judge' was never supposed to pass sentence on a trial. So to the answer; Given that the system is flawed, the people are flawed, we live in a flawed country, I fully expect to be executed. I will add that since the advent of DNA testing; no even that was reported as being flawed a few moths ago, putting in doubt thousands of cases dating back many years. I was going to say that DNA could have saved my life. HAH, what a sh!^hole this place is. No really, I've said it all my life and here it is exposed again. Posted by ALTRAV, Saturday, 6 January 2018 7:18:12 PM
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Dear AL TRAV, . An “Aboriginal” cineaste came through here quite some time ago now, a chap called Warwick Thornton. I was invited to attend the premier of his film “Samson & Delilah” in Paris. He made a speech at the end of the film and took a few questions. When he stood up to make his speech I whispered to my (French) wife “He doesn’t look like an Aborigine to me. They’re usually charcoal black. He’s probably half-caste or only part Aborigine”. A cocktail followed and my wife and I happened to find ourselves standing in front of Thornton as we tasted some Australian wine. To open-up the conversation, my wife said to him with a pleasant smile : “ My husband tells me you’re not a true Aborigine”. His eyes flared-up. His face turned red. He grinded his teeth and I thought he was going to kill me. He was a pretty big guy. Then he calmed down a second and blurted out that his Aboriginal mother had been raped by his genitor, a white man. I told him I enjoyed his film and asked him where I could buy the music. That calmed him down. He told me where I could purchase it on the internet and promptly disappeared into the crowd without uttering a word. I have the disc right here in front of me. It’s great stuff … but difficult to find on the internet. This is the best I could do : http://www.allmusic.com/album/samson-and-delilah-music-from-the-film-mw0001497890 http://www.letras.mus.br/charley-pride/608247/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksK5QMRmifE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZbap9De-J4 . Posted by Banjo Paterson, Saturday, 6 January 2018 11:16:36 PM
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Dear Ashbo, . You ask : « Can you try this for me : Imagine YOU are facing the death penalty, for some terrible crime and you know you are innocent? Do ANY reasons for Capital Punishment justify your own execution? » . The same arguments are valid for my execution as they would be for anybody else in my most unfortunate and highly regrettable position, I’m afraid. The fundamental argument is that which Winston Churchill very wisely pointed out, quoting an unknown author during a speech in the House of Commons on Armistice day, 11 November 1947 : « Many forms of government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time … » As I indicated in my previous post to you, Ashbo : “Justice is the instrument of the political regime it serves. Australia being a modern democracy, we are fortunate in having what may be considered one of the most impartial and efficient justice systems available in the world today”. You will call that I consider that the State alone, exercising the will of the sovereign people, should be empowered to prevent us from living or dying, against our will, in the common interest, if such is the decision of a democratically constituted court of justice and only after full exhaustion of all means of recourse available to defendants within the judiciary process. Nevertheless, it will be a long time before mentalities change in order for justice to be seen simply as the rightful enforcement of the terms and conditions of the social contract to which we all voluntarily subscribe through the democratic process, and depriving somebody of his freedom or his life not just as some cruel form of punishment. . (Continued …) . Posted by Banjo Paterson, Sunday, 7 January 2018 4:12:19 AM
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(Continued …) . Unfortunately, as I pointed out, even in the best of conditions, perfection is not of this world, and accidents can happen. It is a fact of life we simply have to accept. It is unavoidable, no matter what we do. Justice is no exception. There may be good reason for a jury to think that I am guilty of some “atrocious” crime that I did not commit and I may be executed unjustly. All the more reason, as I indicated in a previous post, not to look upon those found guilty of such crimes with contempt, nor to treat them with disrespect, or submit them to mistreatment, pain or cruelty. The court’s decision should be carried out as humanely as possible, in the best possible conditions of euthanasia that modern science can allow, preferably, in a warm, cosy environment. For the sake of comparison, here are some of the latest official “innocent” death statistics : 1,337 deaths by accidental falls in 2016 - Should we ban falling over ? 1,295 road deaths in 2016 – Should we ban all automobiles ? (During the last ten years, vehicle registrations increased by 24 per cent. Passenger car registrations increased by 20 per cent, motorcycle registrations increased by 62 per cent and light commercial vehicle registrations increased by 36 per cent). 2,227 suicides – Should we ban suicide ? 31 aviation deaths in 2015 – Should we ban all aircraft ? 576 deaths by accidental poisoning in 2016 – Should we ban all poisons ? 149 deaths by drowning in 2016 – Should we ban all swimming ? 82 deaths by choking in 2016 – Should we ban all breathing ? 99 child-birth deaths during 2006-2010 – Should we stop having babies ? There were 158,504 deaths in Australia in 2016. 1 in 12 had dementia as the underlying cause - Should we ban people going crazy ? Or, after all, while we’re at it, why not simply ban dying innocently altogether – whatever the cause ? . PS : Please excuse my appalling black humour, Ashbo. . Posted by Banjo Paterson, Sunday, 7 January 2018 4:25:44 AM
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To answer your question on how the child would handle their cultural identity based on a dago father and an abo mother? You realise that the question is wasted on me because my answer, at best, is an opinion and not even one based on experience and empathy.
But I will answer you as best I can.
Firstly I see both parents as just parents. I do not highlight one over the other.
Trying to seek this personal identity you speak of is pointless. I don't give that question a thought because I am an individual as far as my identity goes, it is whatever I am, not whatever I decide I am.
I suggest to anyone in your predicament to stop over thinking it. There is no definitive answer, otherwise you would have found it by now.
I would suggest stop labouring over nothing and just focus on yourself, as just yourself. By all means find out who your ancestors were, but only to put a name on them. As for their origins, I would leave that for the record.
As I have said, if both your parents were abo's, there's nothing to talk about. Your an Australian Aboriginal. If not your an Aussie. You can't pick one ancestor over another. If you have Greek, Vietnamese, French and English backgrounds, there is NO formula from which to choose your heritage.
So why shame and forsake all those other ancestors by choosing just one out of the lot.
If this is your case your decision is easy. You are an Aussie. So become familiar with who YOU are and move on putting your identity question well and truly to bed.