Well, maybe not, Phanto: but it does indicate what a colossal waste of time, effort and money it has been for anybody to waste their time trying to extend the bourgeois institution of marriage beyond its natural limits. Leave it to the churches to marry people if they want.

Joe

Leoj

Yes, I did ‘raise the stakes’, but all’s fair on online forums, as long as you stay within the guidelines. I was pointing out that that a lot of thuggery, sexual or otherwise, is based on social hierarchies. Men are conditioned to see women as below them at all hierarchic levels. So predatory sexuality is built into the dominance structure.

Alan B

All your ‘prepare yourself’ guidelines on how not to get raped when enjoying a night on the town are helpful, but only highlight how women spend their entire lives in fear of rape – at any time or place the rapist so chooses. In fact, women spend their lives doing whatever they can to avoid rape, but the legal and public opinion sectors still assume that if a woman is raped, then she either ‘asked for it’ by dressing wrongly or putting herself in harm’s way, or didn’t do enough to stop it.

Joe

‘We've forgotten how much more vulnerable women used to be, without reliable contraception or the right to abortion AND no single-mother's benefit, a sort of Trifecta of discriminatory rules, and bad luck, for women. ‘

Add to that, few opportunities for them to support themselves unless they married AND the enormous social stigma and expense of divorce.

To put on my other hat, that of amateur historian, the further you go back in history, the more liberal were marriage laws and customs. In Ireland, where I live, the pre-British laws were very relaxed about divorce and sexual activity, and allowed married women the right to own their own money and property. Women also kept their own names after marriage. As these cultures were absorbed into more dominant social systems, usually by military force and/or Christian zealotry, women’s rights plummeted.

While many choose to see the breakdown of marriage in the West as a symptom of social and moral breakdown, I prefer to see it as an adjustment mechanism – getting back to a time when sexual relationships and procreation were viewed in a much more sensible light.

Killarney...

*…Men are conditioned to see women as below them at all hierarchic levels. So predatory sexuality is built into the dominance structure…*

A) When finished pulling the spokes out of the wheel where male dominance is innate in the kingdom of “ man”, do you next then intend also to change the nature of male dominance in the animal kingdom too?

*…In fact, women spend their lives doing whatever they can to avoid rape, but the legal and public opinion sectors still assume that if a woman is raped, then she either ‘asked for it’ by dressing wrongly or putting herself in harm’s way, or didn’t do enough to stop…*

A) Women have an innate recognition of their vulnerability; to ignore that is to be a fool

*…I prefer to see it (moral decay in society), as an adjustment mechanism – getting back to a time when sexual relationships and procreation were viewed in a much more sensible light…*

A) Well you are not adjusting too well to it (the moral decay) by all accounts, with your reaction to gate-crashers at your sons party's.

It's seems to my way of thinking you lack a basic view of reality. Probably why the local plods try to ignore your plight; you actually are the problem!

Killarney...

*…Men are conditioned to see women as below them at all hierarchic levels. So predatory sexuality is built into the dominance structure…*

I think this statement really shows the level of contempt that you hold against men.

There is not a single male I know of who sees women as being below them, Killarney. Possibly you see women as being superior to men, I have even had some women say this to my face.

Sadly in this world of equality if men don't take the risk of trying to initiate sex, nothing happens.

Sex whilst intoxicated?

For me that is not really an enjoyable experience.

Killarney:

“Men are conditioned to see women as below them at all hierarchic levels.”

And women are conditioned to accept this state of affairs primarily by their mothers. It is not men who are the ‘enemy’ but other women.